Jane McFadden:

Today we have the much anticipated episode on burnout. She’s the first person I ever inboxed to come on the show, very excited. Her name is Angela Nenny. She’s a wife, a mum and an ADHD coach. She’s got a past life in musical theatre, fashion PR, mental health case management. She was diagnosed in October 2020, which was a surprise to absolutely no one around her, which I love. Angie says she loves supporting ADHD is to understand the brain wiring, appreciate their gifts and create the life they love. She believes that ADHD is uniquely wired to change the world. Wow, what an introduction. So welcome to you, Angie.

Angie Nennie:

Hi, I’m so excited to be here. So as discussed, Angie was the first person I ever inboxed to come on the show because I just loved her social media on ADHD. I was wondering, Angie, as a first starter, I’d really love you to give a brief description on what you think burnout and overwhelm is in ADHD mums.

Angie Nennie:

Sure. So ultimately burnout doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s usually the culmination of chronic stress that’s been going on for a long time. And so it’s not something that creeps up on you overnight. Essentially your nervous system is depleted. And so your brain is not wired for your happiness. Your brain is wired for your survival. And so basically it’s conserving your energy for your survival. You’ll be experiencing things like fatigue, extreme fatigue. You’ll potentially be struggling with really basic self-care activities. Likely that you’ll be struggling to keep your home running and functioning.

Jane McFadden:

I love that, Angie. And I think you’ve really answered my next question there where a lot of mums and a lot of people I see will say, all the mums tired, everyone’s tired. And I think that last part about how it affects your life is really key with the difference between ADHD burnout and just general mum life. Would you agree with that or do you have anything to add?

Angie Nennie:

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, mum life is extremely overwhelming. And so it makes sense that you end up, if you’re working or studying, you’re also parenting, running the household, makes sense that you would be under chronic stress. And so yeah, then the likely outcome is that if you don’t take care of yourself, you probably will find yourself burnt out and struggling with that fatigue and with that spaciness, numbness, just going through the motions. And we don’t have any options to check out at this point, do we? Because we’ve got one, two, three small people that are relying on us for everything. So there is absolutely no place to rest, I would imagine as well.

Angie Nennie:

It can be really hard to find those times. I wouldn’t say that it’s impossible, but it definitely takes some dedication and real intention to find that time to take care of yourself. You know what I’d love to do in this podcast? I haven’t found anybody yet. So if there’s anyone out here listening that knows anybody, let me know. It’s become very clear to me that I have basically no neurotypical friends. And so what I want to do is I really want to bring in a typical, regular mama, and I want to bring in a neurodivergent or an ADHD mother, and I want to do a day in a life of both to compare, to really show those differences. I don’t know anyone neurotypical. So if anyone knows anyone neurotypical that might be interested, let me know. Because I think it’s that almost disbelief where some mums that I talk to feel like imposters. Everyone’s tired. I should cope better. It’s about me and I’m not doing well enough.

Jane McFadden:

Which is not what you’re saying at all, is it Angie?

Angie Nennie:

I think mumming or parenting is overwhelming no matter whether you’re neurotypical or neurodivergent, but there are definitely different challenges. So if you’re a neurotypical mum, yeah, the demands of parenting are astronomical and it makes sense that all mums are stressed. But when it comes to mums who have ADHD or who are neurodivergent, there are extra challenges. And if we don’t give ourselves a little bit of credit for the extra challenges and we compare ourselves to our neurotypical mum friends, then yeah, it’s likely that we’re going to feel as though we’re lacking somehow because they’re not struggling with the exact same challenges.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So where would you think the biggest difference of the challenges would be?

Angie Nennie:

Well, I think the obvious one that comes to mind is the executive function challenges. When it comes to parenting, tell me what aspect of parenting doesn’t require some organisation or planning or the ability to prioritise or manage time or regulate your emotions, right? So that’s one. And then I think we become possibly more overwhelmed because of the sensory overload that can happen if we’re not managing our spoon, if we’ve got too much on our plate, we can reach that state of sensory overload a lot faster than some of our neurotypical friends. You know, when our ability to use our executive functions is over capacity, then obviously we’re going to experience overwhelm. And I think with parenting, this is something that I discussed with one of my psychologist friends, when it comes to work, there are clear boundaries around work. So it starts at a certain time, it ends at a certain time. There’s clear expectations about what we need to deliver. And there’s a limit on the demands in most jobs. Where with parenting, it’s 24/7, there are no limits. There’s oftentimes nowhere you can go to hide from the kids or take a break, even when you are at capacity. And so I think that that lack of psychological safety has a huge role to play as well. And then lastly, the under-stimulation and over-stimulation of parenting…

Jane McFadden:

So some of it is so mind-numbingly boring. And then other times you’re trying to cook dinner and you’ve got the kids fighting in the background and the dogs barking at you for dinner. And you’re trying to concentrate on what you’re cooking, but you’re also trying to think through who needs to have a bath and all of that kind of thing. And it’s just huge. It’s a huge mental load to bear.

Oh, Angie, I just love what you’ve said. It reminds me, my best friend and I, we’ve got a bit of a running text joke where we talk about how bored and tired we are at the same time. So she texted me the other day and said, I’ve never been so bored in my entire life than what I am at this park with her second child. So she’s already done seven years of parks and she’s still doing it with her three-year-old. And she said, I’ve never been so bored, but I’ve also had the least energy to go out. Because I said to her, look, why don’t we go out for dinner tonight? And she’s like, honestly, I’m too tired. But yet she’s bored at the same time.

And then there’s that expectation about enjoying every moment and getting down on the ground and playing with your child. And you’re like, for me, honestly, I just find it boring. I need so much more stimulation. I’ve only got about 10 minutes of Uno in me and I’m like cooked.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that I’ve been working on is trying to find those things that we can both enjoy simultaneously, which is a challenge. I read a book called Playful Parenting that sparked that journey. And I wouldn’t say I’ve been hugely successful at it, but I have momentary wins.

Jane McFadden:

What would be an activity that you could do with your kids that you think kind of hits the mark or it does sometimes?

Angie Nennie:

One of the things that my kids love is Eurovision. And as you mentioned at the beginning of the episode, I was into musical theatre. So I love me some Eurovision as well. And if we put on the Eurovision soundtrack or playlist, I should say, then we can dance around like crazies in the living room quite happily for a while. I hate board games, so those don’t work super well for me. But yeah, I think like dressing up, dancing around, anything physical is easier for me to enjoy.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I love that you’ve said that because I’ve basically given up on board games or anything that involves sitting. I said to my husband the other day, the only activity that I feel that we can do as a family, the only one is boogie boarding. It’s the only thing that we can do that we all actually have a good time. And obviously, we’ve got sensory issues when we get there. No one wants to put their feet on the ground. No one wants to get wet. But eventually, we all have a cracking time.

But you see those social media posts of people playing games or doing puzzles or doing art… with their kids. I mean, me and my children, we just can’t do those.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, I hear you. Actually, the one arts and craft activity that we have actually enjoyed together is pottery. I actually love the feeling of clay. That’s like some of my sensory stuff coming out. I really love clay. So that’s been one thing we’ve been successful at enjoying. But I hear you with regards to even trying to get my kids out on a bike ride or to go to the beach is such a challenge. There’s always a battle that has to happen before we get there. And then as you were saying, usually we end up enjoying it once we’re out. But you have to have the energy to have the argument beforehand.

Angie Nennie:

I’ve been feeling increasingly frustrated recently. And I know I’ve mentioned I don’t have any neurotypical friends. I do have a couple, if I’m honest. I just put up the people that I would ask to come on this podcast. And I find it challenging at times when we’ll talk about our kids, but they’re neurotypical. They have neurotypical children. And some of their challenges don’t seem as hard as mine. And I don’t know if it might be a little bit of envy on my part or frustration because I wish that I was where they’re at. I feel like my children are probably two years behind developmentally. So I’ve got a seven, five and a four-year-old and I feel like I’ve been at it in the weeds for a long time. But realistically, I feel like I have a five, three, two-year-old developmentally. So I’m still kind of stuck, whereas some of them have progressed.

Jane McFadden:

And I was wondering whether you think having children that are neurodiverse impacts on burnout.

Angie Nennie:

I think for sure when your mind is chaos and your children’s minds are chaos, it makes sense. And what you mentioned before about your kids being developmentally behind where some of their peers might be, that’s a hundred percent accurate. Statistically, ADHD brains mature at a 30% delay until about the age of 25. And so I try to explain to a lot of the parents that come to see me when they’re getting excited about their children turning 18 and moving out, I show them this table that I have that shows by age 18, the typical ADHD brain is about 12 and a half. So that’s really scary when you consider that these kids are moving out on their own at 18.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, I hear you. And I think you’ve hit the nail on the head because I’m probably referring to some of my friends who will make reference to things are getting a little bit easier for them. And of course, I’m happy for them. But at the same time, you feel like, I thought I’d be there. For example, I don’t have everybody toilet trained yet. Now, I thought my four-year-old would be toilet trained. And that might have been an expectation that was incorrect. But I’ve been toilet training him for about 18 months. And you get to the point where you’re like, I have actually had someone in nappies or not in undies and cleaning up everything nearly eight years now. You’re exhausted by it.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, that’s really hard. And then to know that your child’s brain is not going to be fully developed until the age of 25, that obviously has a huge impact on your life. And you will start to see your friends having all of their kids, they’ll become empty nesters, possibly well before you will. And that is a very real struggle, I think, for a lot of ADHD mums.

Jane McFadden:

We see in the media about ADHD mums and mothers that are getting their children diagnosed, getting diagnosed themselves, or maybe hitting burnout and stress so quickly once they have a family and they can’t keep up. I was wondering if you had any perspective on the big surge of diagnosis in mothers today?

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, well, I think it comes down to a few different factors. The main one being, and this is purely my opinion, that there is so much more awareness around ADHD. And I’m sure this is probably something that you’ve already discussed, but the surge in awareness is what, in my opinion, led to the surge in diagnosis. And part of that has been, you know, there’s been so many parents go to have their child assessed for ADHD and then recognize themselves as they’re answering questions regarding their child. They’re saying, well, hang on, I’m fine, right? And then realizing they are fine, but they did also struggle with those same symptoms. And so then they’re getting diagnosed.

Angie Nennie:

I have a perspective that I talk about in one of my other episodes that I feel like when you’re just a woman, a single woman, if you’re in a relationship or not without kids, I feel like you absolutely are able to do self-care, right? You can do self-care all day long if you want. Every Saturday you can do self-care. So you can go out, you can work full time and you know that you can sleep in on a Saturday and have a coffee and watch TV and chill out. You can have a quiet weekend if you want. You can go out if you want. The world’s your oyster.

Angie Nennie:

However, obviously, as soon as you have a child, and you may not be aware either, and I honestly think I was completely unaware of what having a child would be like. I’d never held a baby before. And I wonder if that’s an ADHD trait, like, oh, having a baby would be wonderful. Let’s having a baby, get pregnant, and then go, wow, I didn’t even think how I birthed the baby. So then you get focused on childbirth, hyper-focus on that. By the time the baby comes out, you’re thinking, I didn’t even think about what I’d do with this baby after.

Angie Nennie:

Then the next thing you know, you’re like, well, I haven’t been to yoga in two weeks. I haven’t been to the gym. I haven’t rung a friend. All I’ve done is sit in this house and breastfeed this crying child by myself. And then I think that ADHD symptoms can really start impacting at that point because all of your survival mechanisms are just unavailable to you.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah…. And I think that is that it touches on that sense of psychological safety that I was talking about earlier. But then you’re absolutely right in that whenever we can’t spend the time taking care of ourselves, especially if you’re say a single mom and you don’t have a huge support network, then those opportunities for self-care really dry up. And I think you’re absolutely right that whenever we’re not taking care of ourselves, our stress is increasing. There’s no outlet for it. There’s no nurturance. And so, of course, that leads to that chronic stress, which then can easily lead to burnout.

Angie Nennie:

Absolutely. And then sometimes ADHD moms get quite bored on maternity leave. And that comes back to that you’re the most bored, tired person you’ve ever known, where you have no energy, but you’re completely bored. Bored and tired. I absolutely love my kids. That’s without question.

Angie Nennie:

I just find it so taxing because so much of it is boring. So much of it does drain my energy. If you talk about managing spoons, my spoons are spent on things that are really mundane. So cleaning the house, cooking, breaking up arguments or refereeing arguments, asking my kids to clean up their things and then having to negotiate with them. And those things all drain my energy so that come the weekend, I don’t even want to go out because I’m too tired and I need to conserve my spoons or try to gain some back.

Jane McFadden:

So can you explain a little bit more about the spoon analogy, just in case anyone doesn’t know?

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, absolutely. So the spoon theory is basically an analogy that someone used, I believe, to describe the experience of living with lupus, which is obviously an invisible illness. But applied to ADHD, the way I sort of explain it to people is that you wake up each day with a certain amount of spoons.

Let’s say you’ve got 12 spoons and let’s say that you’ve had a horrible night’s sleep because there’s 75% of ADHDers have some form of sleep disorder. And so you’ve had a terrible night’s sleep. You’re probably already two to three spoons down for the day.

And then you have to use all of your executive functions that morning to get the kids lunches packed, get the kids ready for school, daycare. You need to organize yourself, dress and do all of the personal care tasks. Most of these things are mundane.

And with the ADHD brain being interest-based, they’re all taking spoons. Some of the things we enjoy doing, some of the things we’re interested in might even generate more spoon. But all of those mundane tasks that we have no interest in all take spoons.

And so let’s say by the time that you’ve got yourself and the kids out the door, you’re down to five or six spoons and you’ve still got a whole day of work ahead of you. Not to mention by the time you get home, you’re going to have to do the whole dinner, bath, bed routine, possibly walk the dog, afterschool activities, all that kind of thing. You’re going to be out of spoons, meaning you’ll be depleted energetically. The spoons essentially are a representation of energy, a unit of energy. And so when it comes to managing your spoons, it’s really about managing your energy.

Jane McFadden:

Okay, so does everyone have the same amount of spoons or do ADHD people have less? How does that work?

Angie Nennie:

I don’t know, but I would imagine that ADHDers have less spoons in the sense that just like our other neurodivergent friends, we tend to have a more sensitive nervous system, meaning that we’re more prone to sort of sensory overwhelm, sensory overload. And so things that other people might find really simple, we actually find tax our energy a lot more.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, that’s really interesting. I love that. So then you’ve kind of got the hyperactivity as well, because I’m very much known for my impulsive decision-making. So I often make decisions, don’t think them through and commit to something that 24 hours later, I know that I cannot do. And that’s one of the things we talk about in coaching too, is developing that pause because so many of us have masked through people-pleasing over the years, it’s almost an impulsive yes. And we tend to be yes people. And so building in that pause means that we get the opportunity to really consider whether we have the spoons for it, whether we have the finances for it, whether we have the, you know, whatever, whatever. The pause is really important.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah. And the delay in the decision-making, because I don’t know why it feels so urgent. You know, that impulsivity is always kind of looming with ADHD, I think.

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say to that, if it is a problem for you, that it would be a really great idea if you could buy yourself some time. So maybe instead of reflexively saying yes, build a different reflex to say, let me get back to you on that.

Jane McFadden:

That sounds great.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you’re totally right. I just need to put that into action, which might be my goal for this week, perhaps. It’s easier said than done. And in coaching, we would go through all of the barriers to actually using that response as opposed to the immediate yes. And we’d really dive into it and excavate it before we were, you know, I started throwing out suggestions like, just say, you know, I’ll get back to you. It sounds idealistic when it’s just said on a podcast.

Oh no, no, no. I actually think it’s quite good advice. And, you know, maybe we’ll chat about that offline, you and I. But one thing I do want to ask you about that, about Angie, is do you have any personal experience with burnout, overwhelm as an ADHD mum?

Angie Nennie:

So I had my second child in 2018. I went back to work in early 2019. So I only had about five months off. And previously I had managed to keep all of the balls in the air. My house was always spotless. I didn’t like to have anybody over unless it looked showroom perfect. And this had always been somewhat of a problem for me because it meant that my whole family was dragged into my overwhelm. And I had, you know, my son cleaning the skirting boards, my husband cleaning the fan, just to have somebody over.

Angie Nennie:

But that was the standard that I held myself to. And I held, so when I talk about balls in the air, I get like, I held everything so tightly. Everything had to be so controlled in order for me to cope with the demands of day-to-day life. And then I introduced number two and went back to work. And all of a sudden, a few of those balls started dropping. I couldn’t keep all the balls in the air anymore.

Angie Nennie:

And shortly after that, I accepted a promotion, which meant that I went from a job that I absolutely loved working one-on-one with people in their homes and supporting people with mental health challenges. So I went from that into management and that looks like a lot more task-oriented type work and a lot of things that I found mundane. I had always been known for my lack of care around admin. I would do it at the very last moment at the 11th hour. I would have the admin team chasing me for documents that I should have had in, you know, months ago or whatever. So I should have known, but I didn’t have my diagnosis yet.

Angie Nennie:

The diagnosis, I got the promotion in June and the diagnosis in October. And I realized soon after that I had shot myself in the foot taking that promotion because again, the ADHD brain being interest-based, I was now doing a job that was pretty disinterested. I was pretty disinterested in. And it came with a whole lot more stress and high state as well. And I didn’t get that one-on-one interaction with the client anymore either. And so I really struggled then.

Angie Nennie:

I was basically managing one of our most complex teams where the clients had very complex needs. And so I wouldn’t leave work oftentimes till seven o’clock at night because shifts hadn’t been filled because, you know, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. I won’t go too far into detail. And so I was barely spending any time at home with my family. I wasn’t spending any time on self-care. I wasn’t doing the kind of job that brought me any joy or life. And so I was just operating at that high level of stress.

Angie Nennie:

And the thing is, we’re not designed to operate at high level of stress. So if you’re living life in that fight or flight, like that activated, um, the activated state, then just know that you were never supposed to sustain that for the long-term. That is a survival instinct, a survival mechanism that allows us to fight or to run from a threat. If you’re not fighting or running from that threat, you can’t sustain that level of stress in your body. And so at a certain point, your body’s going to put you into that freeze or shut down state because it can’t maintain the level of overwhelm over the long haul.

Angie Nennie:

And so that’s basically what happened to me is, yeah, my nervous system couldn’t sustain that level of stress over the long haul. And next minute I found myself too exhausted to do the most basic of tasks. And the dynamic in our family changed considerably when my husband had to step up his role in the household, which he’s always been extremely supportive and been extremely involved and he loves the kids and he loves parenting. So I’m really grateful to have him in my life. And I know that that’s not everybody’s position, but he really had to step up and take over where I had previously kind of held the reins.

Jane McFadden:

Wow. Well, full respect to him to stepping up where needed because you’re right. Not everyone has that, do they? Single mums or people without family close by. You know, I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening that, you know, maybe in that position and feel completely alone and that’s really hard as well. So did you end up quitting the job? What happened?

Angie Nennie:

Yeah. So I ended up actually requesting to go back to my previous job and that was fine. I went back, but I was still struggling with burnout and still struggling with a huge lack of energy. And I’ve always been known for my energy. I’ve always been known for being bubbly and enthusiastic and people kept asking me, are you all right? And I just knew that my time there had sort of come to an end. I wasn’t going to be able to heal from burnout if I didn’t move forward.

Angie Nennie:

And in the meantime, I had found out about ADHD coaching that had piqued my interest. I’d done a lot of research into what that would look like as a career and what it meant in terms of study and all that kind of thing. So in my performance review where I was crafting my plan, I was very open and I worked at my last job for eight years. And so, I was really open with my manager and I was like, look, this next, this plan for the next year is actually my exit plan. And they were really supportive of that. And so, over time I ended up sort of dropping back to part-time and more part-time as I moved more into the ADHD coaching till I took the leap last October fully.

Jane McFadden:

Would you say there’s any preventative things to stop burnout? Like for example, you were talking to me before about impulsively agreeing to things. I would imagine that could be something that you could look at. Is there anything else that would reduce the likelihood of burnout occurring?

Angie Nennie:

Well, I think one of the things that we work on probably most in ADHD coaching, and it’s not usually what people come to ADHD coaching for, but it’s the thing that has the most impact and that is self-compassion. So learning to be compassionate towards yourself as opposed to berating yourself every time you don’t meet your unrealistic expectations or standards. Because so many of the people that I see are perfectionists, they’re high functioning, and they’ve had to mask most of their life. And so self-compassion has a huge role to play.

Angie Nennie:

So a really practical tip around developing self-compassion is to ask yourself the question, what would I say to a friend going through the same thing? Because we’re often a lot more compassionate to our friends. And so then whatever you would say to a friend, you turn it around and say it to yourself. So that’s a really practical tip.

Angie Nennie:

And then the bulk of the mental load is still, unfortunately, usually borne by the woman in the household. That’s not always the case. In my case, I would say that Yost actually probably bears the brunt of the mental load right now, but it hasn’t always been that way. And so what we’ve started doing recently is having Sunday meetings. We get together and it might be over a glass of wine. It’s pretty casual, but I have a list of things that we work through.

Angie Nennie:

So we go through the emails from the school to see whether there’s anything we need to action for the following week. We look at meal planning and grocery list. We look at finances for the coming week. I look at what clothes I need for the upcoming week so that if there’s any prep I need to do or any laundry that needs to be done that weekend that I can get that done. Just taking that time to plan means that I don’t have to keep those things in mind throughout the rest of the week, which is a huge load off my plate.

Angie Nennie:

And then, I mean, those societal expectations that I was talking about before, perfectionism and the people pleasing and the masking that we do, that comes back to that self-compassion we need to be able to give ourselves. We need to allow ourselves to kind of lower our standards.

Angie Nennie:

One of the resources that I would recommend around this, and especially if you have reached burnout and you are on struggle street, unable to take care of yourself, really struggling with taking care of your kids and the household and all of the things that need to be done is Struggle Care by Casey Davis. She also wrote a book called How to Keep Housewell Drowning.

Angie Nennie:

I love her tips and recommendations. They are none. And in relation to what I was just saying about the planning that I do with my husband, there’s another resource. I’ve only recently heard of it and I haven’t, like, I can’t fully recommend it myself, but I know it’s one that Casey Davis from Struggle Care recommends, and that is the Fair Play Method, where that method basically looks at redistributing the mental load of the household and the workload within the household, which I’m sure would be very helpful for many of the people listening.

Angie Nennie:

What else have I got? Oh, and one of the things that I often work through with my clients in a coaching session is to develop a nervous system regulation menu. So, that’s basically learning to tune into what state your nervous system is in, whether it’s in that fight or flight state, whether it’s in the shutdown state or whether it’s in that combined state of freeze, which often looks like procrastination.

Angie Nennie:

So, if you consider your fight or flight state, the accelerator and your shutdown state, the brake, the freeze state is basically where you’ve got both accelerator and brake applied in equal measure. So, you’re spinning your wheels and that might look like you being on the couch scrolling through your phone and looking at the dishes going, I know I need to get the dishes done. I really need to do the dishes. I’ve got to do all of these other things. Oh my gosh, your brain’s on overdrive, but your body can’t move.

Angie Nennie:

And so, what we do with the nervous system regulation menu is, like, once you can recognize which state you’re in, we can put together a list of tools and strategies that you can use when you’re in either of those states. But if you do find yourself in burnout, add things to your list or to your menu that answer the question, what would bring a gentle return of energy? And those are some of the tips that I would recommend.

Jane McFadden:

That’s a lot. Wow, Angie, I just had my pen out writing a lot of those down. They were just brilliant. They were just brilliant. Thank you so much.

Angie Nennie:

Oh my God, wow. One thing that I did want to just kind of highlight was I did pick up in some of your tips, which I just loved, that there’s that element of asking for help and kind of de-masking that happens there too, because you have to come out with that, you know, things aren’t great. You might not even be showing your husband about how you’re feeling. You might be just keeping going, keeping going. And there’s that element of asking for help and saying, I think, need things to be different that I think can also be really hard.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’re biologically wired for connection. So when we are resentful of our spouse or we’re not able to talk about our needs freely or openly, then there’s a real cost to that. We need each other. We need the village. And so as much as possible, reach out and ask for help. And if that’s not available to you in your home, then look at the options that exist outside your home. They might not be the most appealing options, but it’s really important that you get some support.

Angie Nennie:

I actually remember when I first moved from New York back to the Sunshine Coast, I had my son, my husband had had to stay in the States and he was finishing off a work contract over there. And I was so overwhelmed. In hindsight, I think I had postpartum depression, but I was just in survival mode because I just had to move internationally to a place where I knew nobody, which was, you know, the Sunshine Coast. Yes, I’m from Australia, but I had no family on the Sunshine Coast. And so I was just so depleted and so overwhelmed….

Angie Nennie:

And I sat in a psychologist’s office and I was thinking, I would pay you this money just for you to take my child so that I can go to a cafe and just sit there and look at the waves and not have to have any responsibility.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I’m just nodding my head. I remember I have a couple of friends and they’ve given their child to their husband to look after and said they were going to a psychologist. And then they’ve gone and sat on the beach, turned off their phone and just watched the waves. And, you know, there’s so much value in that as well. When your brain’s going so quickly, you’re so overwhelmed. You’re like, I don’t even want to talk about my problems. I just need some quiet.

Angie Nennie:

Absolutely. Yeah. It’s so important just to take those moments and to get that mental space and clarity.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think with some of those resources that you’re talking about, you know, you said they might not be perfect. And I think that’s really important that you said that because let’s say, for example, if someone’s going to offer to cook you dinner, are you going to ask for it to be, you know, cooked in a certain way, a certain cuisine? Like I would just want any dinner will be fine if someone offered to cook it for me.

I had a bit of a role reversal with my husband a couple of years ago that was really difficult and I had to accept that a lot of the ways that he was going to do things weren’t going to be the way that I was going to do them. And they weren’t going to be the speed that I would do them, to put that lightly. And, you know, like, well, do you want the help or not? Because if the help being offered to you, but you’re not happy with how it looks, tastes, feels and the speed that it’s given, what would you prefer?

Angie Nennie:

And at that point, it’s been a real learning curve for me to know that sometimes I just need to wait. And I want dinner at 5.30, for example, you know, for the kids. But if my husband’s going to cook and it’s going to be there at six, quarter past six, maybe that’s okay to be okay with that, regardless, because you can’t ask for it to be perfect.

Jane McFadden:

Well, and what is perfect? Then we go back to the whole discussion about perfectionism.

Angie Nennie:

Yeah. And I’m a shocking perfectionist. I’m an ADHD with some serious perfectionism issues.

Jane McFadden:

So, you know, there’s the definition of insanity right there really, isn’t it?

Angie Nennie:

Yeah. We really shoot ourselves in the foot.

Angie Nennie:

And the other thing about perfectionism is that it’s actually considered a fight response. So anything that moves us towards a threat is considered a fight response, but anything that moves us away from the threat is considered a flight response. And so perfectionism is basically our attempt at controlling people’s perceptions of us. And in doing so, that gives us that sense of psychological safety that we’re craving, but it’s actually where we’re shooting ourselves in the foot big time.

Jane McFadden:

I had just the final question, Angie, what do you think ADHD mums probably don’t know about that you could share with them?

Angie Nennie:

Our brains aren’t wired for happiness, they’re wired for our survival. And so when we go into that shutdown state or that burnout state, that’s our brain’s attempt at keeping us alive because it is perceiving whatever is happening as a threat to our life. And so that’s something worth paying attention to. It’s not worth pushing through. And oftentimes you’ll find that you can’t when you’ve hit burnout. But we live in a society that values productivity over the person and it’s time for that to change. So when we do experience burnout, let’s listen to our bodies. Let’s give our bodies and our nervous systems what we need in order to function and not just function, but thrive. And let’s prioritize our mental health and our self-care because without those, we can’t be the mums. We can’t be the people that we want to be.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I just love that. Look, Angie, thank you so much. Honestly, I’ve just gotten so much out of this episode. I really appreciate it. For anyone who’d like to work with you, I was wondering, we might have some podcast listeners who are on the NDIS. Is there any opportunity to use NDIS funds at all, if people want to work with you?

Angie Nennie:

Yeah, absolutely. I’ve got a few different line items that are possibilities for people depending on what their funding will cover. And if people want to work with me, they can go to my website at angenie.com.au. That’s A-N-G-E-N-E-N-I-E.com.au. And you can schedule a free discovery call via the website. I also offer a free session after that, just so that you can try ADHD coaching for yourself and make sure that it’s going to be valuable to you before you make any commitment. Because I know that a lot of people have had no exposure to ADHD coaching, don’t know what it is, want to know what it’s all about before they make a decision to whether to go ahead or not. So I like for people to feel confident about their decision.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, great. Great. Look, thank you so much. You’ve just given us so much pearls of wisdom there. For anyone who’s struggling to get a pen, don’t worry, all of the information for Angie is going to be in the podcast notes. Angie, I’d love to get you back. I’ve got such a connection with you and some of your approaches and your tips, I just think it’s so valuable. So we might come back and do another one at another time.

Angie Nennie:

Amazing. Thank you. It’s been so lovely chatting to you. And this was really our first opportunity to chat. So I’ve really enjoyed myself.

Jane McFadden:

I’m glad you have too and look forward to what’s next.

Angie Nennie:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Angie.

Jane McFadden:

You’re welcome. Thanks, Jade.