• You dread school mornings more than any other part of the day
• You feel judged (or judge yourself) when the family arrives places like a circus
• You crave honesty about motherhood beyond pretty Instagram squares
• You’ve ever wondered if you’re failing — but deep down know you’re giving everything you can
• You want solidarity, not solutions, and a reminder that you’re not alone

Jane McFadden:
Hello and welcome to another episode of ADHD Mums. We have the beautiful Lucy back with us. If you don’t remember Lucy, she was one of the first people that I interviewed as a guest on this podcast.

Hello, how’s it going?

Good. If anyone hasn’t listened to Lucy, because she’s right in the beginning, she did a great episode on hyperfocus. So Lucy managed to build a very successful baby industry-style company herself with three small children. And she also did one on study and ADHD and how that works as a mature age student and being a mum on top of everything else. I’m going to put those two notes in the show notes. So then if anyone really likes the sound of Lucy, they can go back and check it out.

We’ll probably reference it a little bit too. Lucy, do you want to take over and give us a bit of an overview on who you are, how many kids you’ve got, where you live and what you’re up to?

Lucy Holister:
Yeah, for sure. I have three children. They are finally all in primary school, which has been a massive weight off my shoulders. So we live on the beautiful Sunshine Coast and we’re out in the Glasshouse Mountains in the hinterland. I’m currently just enjoying being a stay-at-home mum and really dedicating a lot of my time at the moment to the new house that we’ve bought. Just really focusing in on our family, renovating our house and myself.

Jane McFadden:
Okay, great. So when I interviewed Lucy, I’m pretty sure, was it May last year, Lucy? It would have been around that time. When you described your life as a student, you were studying nursing, your husband was FIFO, you having ADHD yourself, also having children with some additional needs that are neurospicy, as we like to call it, which I think is a great term because we don’t want to necessarily disclose their diagnosis, but we know that they’re spicy. They’ve got a fair bit going on and that’s why I like the name spice.

Yeah, it’s not a negative word. It’s a fun word to explain. And it’s exciting. Our house is very exciting. It’s a little bit like a reality show. There’s always something going down. It is an exciting place to live, if you put it in more positive terms.

When Lucy described her life last May, I actually got off the phone call and felt a little overwhelmed with just what Lucy has going on. And as I was interviewing her, I also felt bad that I was taking even a skerrick of her time because I was trying to figure out how she possibly lives her life. It actually sounded a little bit like a nightmare to me.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
And I can only say that now because when Lucy’s done her introduction, she’s actually no longer studying. Can you tell us what kind of led up to that?

Lucy Holister:
Yeah, so I wasn’t really loving trying to balance my life with three children. I had two in school, one in kindy. I have a husband who works away. I had a house to care for. There was just so much on. I was working at the time as well. So I had all these different things to do all the time and all these different hats to wear.

And I felt like I was never giving my all to any one thing. And it felt like I was just so overwhelmed all the time that everything was getting on top of me. I wasn’t a hundred percent sure at this time if going into a role that is shift work and work that is going to be all hours of the day, weekends, public holidays, really suits our lifestyle right now.

So I did decide to take a little break and just reassess our situation and my priorities. And I think it really was the best thing I could ever do for our family. The kids were struggling a little bit with having me always rushing around and always trying to get to study and get home and doing assignments and trying to rush them off to bed so that I could study.

And so I felt like it was probably the smartest choice I could make was to go something else to give. And of course I can’t give up three kids. I made them and I love them and they are mine. So I felt that giving up study and quitting my job was the choice I could make. So I chose to do that and felt giant weight fall off my shoulders and I did feel a lot better.

Jane McFadden:
One thing that we identify with ADHD is that we know that at times you can be misdiagnosed with bipolar. I’ve spoken to a lot of women who have been misdiagnosed with bipolar. The reason, and this is not a medical opinion, this is my personal opinion, the reason that I believe that happens is because ADHD can often be marked by significant periods of stress, taking on too much, new projects, excitement, go, go, go, go, go. And sometimes we set things up that then we can’t maintain.

Yeah. And I’ve noticed because I’ve spoken to you three times now and also we have chatted a little bit online on the text. At times you seem like you’ll burn out and then you like reset, readjust, and then you’ll take on something new and then you’ll be excited about it, but then you’re at some point that stops and then you drop down again energy wise.

Yeah. Do you feel like you went through some burnout with the study?

Lucy Holister:
Yeah, absolutely. Like I was guns blazing going into it. I bought all the cute stationery. I bought the books. I bought a new bag, like everything. I was full into it and really hitting it hard. And I was all ready to go.

And then it was like pretty much the first week of classes, I realized that I was already behind because I haven’t studied for a while prior to that. And I didn’t realize that by week one lesson, you actually need to have done the reading for week one. So really it started the week before and I just was already behind immediately. And it just got on top of me very quickly.

So I did find that I was burning out pretty quickly into the course. And then I just was hanging in there because it was past the census date. And I figured may as well give it my best while I’m doing it and paying for it anyway.

Jane McFadden:
Absolutely. Cause you’re quite hyperactive in your brain. The reason I mentioned it is because you and I are very similar and I get very excited and I don’t mean this in a derogatory way at all because I’ve been a stay-at-home mom.

I was a stay-at-home mom for how many years? Four. And it was really difficult because I’m desperate to use my brain, desperate to have a project, but I’ve also got no capacity to actually do that. So then I would go through phases of trying to find something to do because I was so bored in my brain, but physically, mentally, everything was so exhausted.

I was wondering how does this episode with, I hate motherhood and obviously you and I don’t hate motherhood. It’s a bit of a play on words. There are parts of it that I don’t enjoy a lot. And there’s parts of it that I do would probably say I hate. For example, I hate the fact that my son is not for toilet change yet. He’s only five.

I don’t hate him, but I hate the fact that I’m still changing nappies and I’m eight and a half years into motherhood. Full-time, there’s no breaks for changing the poos. So I suppose for you, would you say that the hyperactive brain and needing to do something in your brain and this push and pull of the kids, but also wanting a project and wanting something to do for your brain to extend yourself, is that part of the reason that you’re here?

Lucy Holister:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that because I was so overwhelmed and then like you said, that need to have my brain stimulated and do something, I immediately jumped into another project. I started looking for property and decided that we should sell our house and buy a property to renovate.

So I did, as much as I was having a break from uni and work, my brain needed something to focus on. So I jumped straight into getting my house ready to sell, finding an agent, looking at properties and yeah, immediately overwhelmed myself again.

Jane McFadden:
Yep. You and I are so similar. That is so interesting. So you’ve moved into the house now. How do you even identify this point? And I know we’re going off topic a little bit, but how do you even identify what is actually what you really want to do and what is hyperactive impulsive brain? Because I can’t figure that out.

It looks the same to me. And to me, I have this same struggle where at the moment, like you said, you get really excited about a project, you get really into it and then you have that dip.

Lucy Holister:
And so we moved in here just at the end of November and in the first few weeks demolished this house, like outside we demolished everything, like lots. Inside, I ripped out a kitchen with my bare hands, ripped down walls. I was like manic. I ripped out carpets. I was go, go, go.

And then it got to Christmas and I felt just exhausted by the house and whatever. So we had all of that really fun stuff of getting uniforms and getting books. And I love that. I know it sounds a bit silly, but I love that. I love shopping for stationery and labeling all their books and making sure that they have the cute pencil cases and lunch bags. And that was feeding my brain. I got all that.

And then they started school. And it was only last week, Monday. And I turned around to my husband and I was like, I’m really bored now. Like I need something else to do.

And that’s that same thing. Am I seeking dopamine? Am I acting irrationally and trying to just get something quick to a new project or something for my brain? Or should I actually be exploring this idea of gaining employment or doing something else instead of being a stay-at-home mom? So it is really hard to differentiate those things. Yeah, I don’t know.

Is it the right thing or am I just jumping into something again because I am bored?

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And I look, I fucking don’t know the answer. Hey, it does my head in. And sometimes I look back. Have you ever looked back on your phone through like screenshot? Let’s say you’re trying to find a picture of one of your kids and you accidentally go down the rabbit hole. What is all this stuff? And for those of you who are listening, I’m like flicking my finger on my phone.

You’re scrolling, you’re scrolling. And you’re like, oh, this was when I was really into painting for three months and I spent my entire life. I was going to do that and I was going to do this and I was dedicated to it.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And then you think about all the days and hours and stuff you sacrificed for this painting thing that you were on for a while.

And then it actually dulls it down. When I start something new now, I’m like, this might only last a few months. Like you don’t even know what’s real and what’s not. I’m going to start things because I go, am I even going to follow this through? So sometimes I do avoid starting things because I’m unsure if I have the capacity or the will or the want to follow it through. So sometimes I won’t start.

Lucy Holister:
Oh, absolutely. And look, my daughter’s really into horses at the moment and that’s lovely. It’s actually, I haven’t even wanted to buy her the boots or a helmet because I’m like, let’s just wait and see how this goes because she convinced me that she’s into it. But I don’t know if this is just a two month thing and she’s going to go one day and go, no, I don’t want to go anymore.

Jane McFadden:
You’ve got a whole house full of this kind of impulsive emotional decision-making as well. Are you diagnosed and medicated at the moment?

Lucy Holister:
Yes. So I am diagnosed ADHD and I have the combined type, a little bit of both inattentive and hyperactive, which is so me. I’m a Gemini and I used to put it down to being a Gemini before I knew that I was ADHD. And it’s very funny, like those two different sides of you. It just describes me perfectly.

And yes, I am currently taking medication when I remember to take it. If it’s not too late in the day, it’s hard for me because I am on a, on Vyvanse long acting medication. So I have to remember to take it early enough in the morning. Otherwise I cannot take it.

Jane McFadden:
Okay. When we talk about motherhood, what parts of motherhood would you enjoy and what parts would you say are the worst parts? There are some parts of motherhood that I would throw in the bin if I could. And one of those would be getting my kids ready for school in the morning. It makes me mental to the point of just no return.

I really struggle with it because all three of my children are neuro-spicy and so am I. And it doesn’t matter the amount of charts, the amount of rewards, the amount of prompts. I hate getting kids ready for school in the morning. That would be an absolute chuck it in the bin, pay someone else to do it, hate it.

But then there’s parts of motherhood that I just love. And that’s, we went to Gardner’s Falls on Saturday because I was just a bit like, oh, we’re feeling a bit flat. We’re feeling a bit, being stuck at home, don’t really know what to do. And just being there and enjoying that time with my kids where I don’t have to try and control them because it is such a wild environment.

It’s jumping off cliffs and it’s swimming and swinging off rope swings. And it’s just being in nature and they all just had the best time. I had an amazing time because I didn’t feel like I was having to control their behaviors at all.

They were able to just have fun and be them and seeing them be able to express themselves. And my middle child’s very hyperactive. So watching him jump off these cliffs and just enjoy himself, that was the best for me.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, perfect. So let’s take a step back because I think every mother on this podcast would be like, getting ready for school is the worst thing in the entire world. I cannot tell you.

It’s awful. It is. It’s awful. It is the worst. And it is the absolute worst. And it’s no one can follow direction.

My daughter takes so long to put her shoes on. But then at the same time, if I get upset with them, it takes them longer. For example, we finally got one of them in the car, Billy, who’s probably the second worst at getting ready. My daughter’s definitely the hardest.

And he got back out of the car and came back in. And I understand why my hubby got frustrated with him. And he said to him, can you please just get in the car? That’s all he said. Billy starts crying. Daddy’s being mean to me.

Now he’s in his room crying. And I was like, Jez, can you go in there and sort him out? I was just overwhelmed too. And I was like, look, I didn’t upset him. I think you should go. You should go fix it. I don’t want to do it.

So then I can hear him in there. And then I could hear him because he’s still frustrated, just saying, well, mate, I just need you to get in the car. And he’s just saying the same thing. And Billy’s going, no.

And I can hear him escalating, escalating. I’m like, oh my God, I’m going to get involved again. So then I have to beg him and distract him and convince him to get into the car because anything that involves me raising my voice or threatening or anything like that takes longer.

So it’s just like in a rage that you have to push down because if I say anything, it’s going to make it worse. How does it play out for you? Is it similar or?

Lucy Holister:
It’s probably worse in a way because I’ve been really open and honest with everyone about I struggle with emotional regulation myself. So I know that I get really frustrated and that I will raise my voice and I don’t have a second person here. So I’m often trying to get the kids ready, get one of breakfast, do this, do that.

I’ve still got, Delilah’s only in prep now. And if she goes to the toilet, she’s still screaming at me down the hallway to come and check that she’s wiped her bum properly. It’s that being torn between all of the different tasks while still needing to shower myself and get myself presentable because I need to walk my kids in to school because Delilah’s in prep.

So it’s that of all the people needing you and that you’ve got for yourself. And it’s exhausting by school starts for us at 8.20. So we leave home at sometime between 8 and 8.15 and we try and get there on time. And by that time I’ve dropped them off. I get back in the car and I’m exhausted.

And I feel like my cortisol levels are through the roof and I’m over it already. And it’s 8.30 at the latest. And I think, how the fuck do we keep on doing this day after day, week after week? And I don’t love it.

It’s the worst, the worst thing ever. If you have to go straight to work or study or whatever it is that you have to go to, if you went straight from that with no breathing space straight into something else, it can be really jarring. And I know the way the economy is at the moment, both people have to work.

I think the level of stress is just layer and layer on. I remember speaking to somebody right after I dropped the kids off. I came back home. Someone called me from work and he said something very small to me and I just flew off the handle. Not at him, but about what he said.

And I just blew up, like totally overreacted. And he’s, whoa, it’s not even 9am. And then by the time you work, that’s the downtime for then actually having to back up the night time. But I agree with you, if I could get rid of anything, it would be the morning routine. That would definitely be the worst trigger for me as well.

What do you think about people actually recognising how hard it is? Because I don’t even think people recognise how hard it is for just mothers, let alone mothers who have a neurospicy themselves. Their husband may or may not be, they’ve got multiple kids with all different stuff going on.

Lucy Holister:
What do you think about how society actually recognises that? I think even mothers who don’t have a husband or a partner who is FIFO, when my husband even was working at home, he was leaving before we were awake. I don’t know if society is really acknowledging how much work that primary parent is doing before they even go to work or if they come home to the house, whatever they’re doing.

I don’t think society is understanding the immense mental and physical and emotional toll that we put on ourselves and that we do in the mornings and all of the things. I don’t think society gets it. I think it’s a expected thing that you just get on with it and you just do it.

I do remember my nan, she is turning 80 this year, so a very different generation. I remember saying to her one day, honestly, it’s just crap. The mornings are awful. I just feel like I can never get everything done. No one listens, rah, rah, rah.

She said to me, oh, love, you just need to get up a bit earlier and get yourself organised. I remember thinking, if I get up any earlier, I may as well not go to bed. Different generations and different stresses.

Like you said, the way society is now with everything, stress, money, the economy, the base level of stress is so high. Then you add in kids and you add in getting ready and you add in, if I did have to go to work, I don’t know how I would do that because of needing, some mornings I don’t get ready before I drop them off. I just have to accept that I’m going to school in my pyjamas and hope no one judges me.

We’re lucky where we are, that a lot of people understand because they know my kids. They know it’s hard.

Jane McFadden:
Can you tell us about what would be an example of a really bad day or a really bad time where you would be like, this is unmanageable. I actually can’t do this every day.

Lucy Holister:
I could tell you just about this morning because that was exactly what happened this morning. Javi got home last night, which is early for him. He’s usually home on a Monday morning. We have a puppy who’s just over one. He barked all night long, so he kept us awake. Delilah woke up through the night. I put her back to bed.

Then I found that she’d actually gone into her older brother’s room. She came out this morning after it was 4.30 or 5 o’clock this morning. She was up. The puppy had chewed Javi’s thongs. There was crap everywhere.

Then she asked me to have a shower. I was like, okay, why do you need a shower? She says, well, I weed the bed. I’m like, oh, your bed. She said, no, I’ve weeded Charlie’s bed because I slept with Charlie.

Before 5 a.m., Javi and I are taking sheets off bed, putting a child through the shower, cleaning up thongs that have been chewed to pieces in the living room, trying to get another child up to get him out of the bed that the weed is in that bed. Then just trying to get everyone to eat their breakfast. My eldest child, I love him so much because he’s like me. He’s very extra.

He comes in and he’s, mom, do you want me to get bacon and eggs? Him making bacon and eggs turns into the kitchen being a mess. Then it turns into an hour-long process. They’re still eating breakfast at 7 a.m.

I just don’t understand how we can be up so early and still not be ready for school on time. It is unmanageable some days because Javi and I were both exhausted and then that was it. We just had very little regulation. Everyone was yelling at everyone.

By the time we all went to school, I think with added humidity and temperature, we were just like, thank fuck, everyone’s going to school today because we were done.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. That sounds like a typical morning to me too. I think the mornings are definitely the worst trying to figure out what one of my kids wants to have in their lunchbox and then just hearing no and then you’re like, so you’re just going to eat cookies all day. Then I’m just like, fine.

I can’t believe I just agreed to that. I don’t know what else to do. I often do easy because I’m so sick of arguing with them.

Lucy Holister:
I’m glad our school is not strict on what we pack in our lunchboxes. Obviously, I don’t go ridiculous. I just let my kids eat what they’re going to eat. I add veggies, I add fruit, whatever, but I’m sick of arguing over everything. That’s the one thing I’m going to let go today. If they want cookies and a chocolate muffin, go for it. I’m not arguing. I’m done.

Jane McFadden:
Absolutely. What percentage of motherhood would you enjoy? If you could just say standard week or day, what would be your average?

Lucy Holister:
I definitely think that it varies. I also have PMDD related to my cycle. I often can get quite down for two weeks of the month. I think it’s probably about 50-50 for me.

There is a lot of shit in motherhood, but there’s also a lot of beautiful moments that help to make it all worthwhile because if there weren’t those moments that make it worthwhile, I do not think we could keep this up day in and day out. It’s hard to stay up as well mentally.

Jane McFadden:
How do you go managing having to do something that you dislike? Obviously, don’t mean that you dislike your kids, the jobs associated with it, like cooking and cleaning and for meals that people throw on the floor, that kind of shit. How do you go mentally just staying upright knowing that you’ve got another 10 years to go minimum, if not 15?

Lucy Holister:
I think we’ve just developed some kind of strategies. I was crazy. I was taking three kids shopping on a weekend. I don’t know why. I just hated myself, I think. Then someone said to me, just do click and collect, mate. Stop punishing yourself and just do it.

I sit down with the kids and I say to them, okay, what food do you want this week? What do you want in your lunches? What do you want to eat? We have that conversation and we talk about what dinners they want.

Then I do the shopping, whatever. Then when I’m cooking those meals, I also let them know early on, remember this is what is for dinner. This is what we’re having. Then when they turn around and say they don’t want it, I’m like, no, we all agree to this as a family. This is what we’re eating.

Oftentimes I will do, if you don’t want all of it, you can pick out what you want to eat, but I’m not going to argue over it. This is dinner. It’s just finding little strategies that help with those things because I have two kids who eat relatively well and one that just refuses anything that has green on it ever. It is shit trying to feed that child when he just argues about everything.

Just have to make do some days with giving him an egg on toast if he doesn’t want what we want. Then you’re cooking multiple stuff. It’s better life is life. Sometimes people say to me, I don’t know how you do it. My answer is, I don’t know what else you want me to do. What am I going to do? Let them starve? Because you don’t know how I do it.

What’s the option? Selling them a marketplace. I suppose you’re trapped in your own life trying to make the best of it and then still trying to mentally get up in the morning and be going, okay, we have another drop-off. Please, I just have to get through the next two to three hours.

Jane McFadden:
Absolutely. I think I could see why people fall into depression where they just feel like there’s no hope. It’s not going to get better. It is hard some days. I’m not a morning person as it is. Never have been, but I guess some mornings when I know I’m getting up to do that shitty routine, I know I’m getting up to argue with kids about getting ready when they don’t want to do that.

It’s obviously not an exciting thing to get up to. I have to push myself to get up and show up for them because no one else is here to do it. I have to do it. I have to get up and I have to be positive and try to give them a good morning so that they have a good start to their day because just like we don’t like starting our day like that, it doesn’t set them up for a good day either if it starts with yelling and fighting and arguing.

I do try every single day to get up and be positive for them, but sometimes it just goes to shit real quick.

When you first thought, I’m going to get pregnant, what a great thing to do. Lovely, right? Did you realize how hard it was going to be?

Lucy Holister:
First of all, we had a surprise baby. I was 19 years old, so absolute surprise. When we were discussing, oh my God, we’re going to have a baby, I look back now and I think I was very naive because I thought about having a baby. I thought about breastfeeding. I thought about no sleep at night. I thought about how we would afford nappies and how I would afford being off work.

I never thought that I would be arguing with a small version of myself to put on these shoes. I never thought that far ahead. I think that I never knew it would be this hard. I did think that it would be difficult here and there, but I never thought that every single day I would be getting up and fighting a battle to get these kids just ready for school. I never knew it would be that hard.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, I didn’t either, to be honest. I just thought you just told them to do their jobs. You have a chore chart and they just follow along and then they just do it. That has been really jarring too because it’s not what I expected.

I think if we just go there with social media, I think those images are still being portrayed. In my opinion, I think the happy pictures of the mums with the long flowing hair and the beautiful dresses and their straw hats and their baby that’s just looking at them smiling are still the images that we’re seeing.

Yeah, of the representation of motherhood. And I don’t think there’s enough out there. I always reference Beyond the Likes with Amy Gerard. Love her. I think she was one of the first women who really did it back in 2018, 17. She was in there early and that’s just pure, raw, genuine authenticity for me. That’s what I see from Amy.

I think she has done it and I think there’s a few people, but I still feel like there’s a very strong representation on shoulder it. Go and get a massage once a month and you’ll be fine or have a bath at night and that’s filling up your cup. I usually use the analogy that if you are starving in the desert or you’re so dehydrated that you think you might die soon and then someone gives you a sip of water, that to me is what self-care and motherhood is.

You go and get a massage, that’s a drop in the ocean to what you really need. And if your cup is full from one massage, then I think you are killing it as a mother because there’s not many mothers I know that go for one hour and maybe have a coffee and then they come back rejuvenated.

When that happens to me, it actually fucks with my head and I just think that break has given me a small semblance of myself and I need more of that. It’s not enough. It’s not enough. I almost would prefer to have not done it than to have a taste of what I know I can’t have very often.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah, absolutely. And even trying to organize that. I needed to get my eyebrows waxed on the school holidays and I organized with my cousin who also has three small children to watch my kids for me so I could go and get my eyebrows waxed. And I’m talking 15 minutes and I laid there and I nearly fell asleep as she was ripping my eyebrows off.

And I thought, how funny that I think this is a little mini break for me. Is this how hectic my life is that I’m actually like having hair ripped from my face is a break?

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, because you can’t do that. I love seeing other people’s kids displayed nicely while they get their nails done or something. No way. I’m like, how are you doing that? Did you drug them beforehand? Like, how are they waiting for you? Yeah, no way. It’s just foreign to me.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah. But I still think that the way that people view motherhood is still like very much suck it up, ladies.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And then as we as mothers, we have to be almost careful with who we communicate with because comment like yours, the mornings are the worst. I can’t stand it. It’s so hard. You just don’t know who you’re saying that to and then what they might say to you, which then might really affect you because it’s all well and good to vent with other ladies who are the same, but you got to be careful.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah. I’m so fortunate. I have some of the best people in my life who are really supportive. They know that it’s hard. And they’ve said to me like, I don’t know how you do it. You are so amazing for showing up every day.

And when I say I hate mornings, I can’t do this another freaking day. They’re like, you’re just doing so well. Like the fact that all your kids get to school, everyone’s stressed, everyone’s got lunch, everyone’s got home-baked snacks and there, and you’re doing that. That’s great.

And so I’m really lucky that I have that support that I can go, fuck, I hate this. I’m so sick of it. I want to throw my kids in the bin. I want to throw school mornings in the bin. I want to throw life in the bin right now.

And they give me a hug. They say it’s okay. And they don’t judge me for hating that because they know how much I deeply love my children. I do everything for them. Always. I love my nothing else in this world.

They know that I’m just being honest and saying this shit is hard and getting it off my chest and saying it makes it better. And then I can take a deep breath and get on with it. You know, like I’m very fortunate. I have that support and those people who will never judge me for saying that.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. Well, that’s great. And I think you’ve got like that. And if you don’t maybe create the friendships online, if you don’t know people like that in your physical day-to-day life, that doesn’t mean you can’t have anybody. And my Facebook group’s really good. Grab on there. There’s always ladies that want to have a chat.

Try to connect with people online that you know are like-minded if you just don’t know who to approach in the schoolyard. So we’ve listed the mornings. What would be your second, this is really hard. I’m not enjoying this aspect.

Lucy Holister:
I think grocery shopping or just needing to pop into the shop to get something or even just leaving the house to go somewhere. It’s basically that same thing again of trying to round up.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. So you’re saying like transitioning from one activity to another. Okay. We’re at the pool. We need to leave. We need to go home.

And then getting them out of the car at my house is 15 minutes of crying and screaming and fighting. Who’s going to open the front door? Who’s going put the TV on? Is the air con on? Now I need snacks. Oh, I dropped that. It broke. He touched this first. I wanted to sit there.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah. It’s pretty much transitioning anywhere. Going somewhere or coming back is hardest. I would say also being in the car because I get emotionally dysregulated and I get sensory overloaded. If we’re in the car, we have a seven-seater and my middle child who is, I think, hyperactive, bit of an instigator between the other siblings.

He is in the boot in the seventh seat. And if he is trying to talk to me in the front and he’s yelling over the other kids, and then I’m trying to focus on driving, which I find the most shit boring activity. So for me, I have to really focus to drive.

So it being in the car, sensory overload, radio on, kids yelling and screaming, someone asking me questions, and I just want everyone to be quiet so I can focus on driving. I would say that’s probably second to school mornings. So having to drive somewhere that is more than, say, five minutes around the corner, it’s not a good time for us.

Jane McFadden:
I think you and I are so similar. There must be other people that are listening to this too. My hubby is so beautiful. He loves everybody being together and he’s always really optimistic about what that will be like.

And I’ve been saying to him for years, we can all go together and have a shit time or we can separate and actually have somewhat of a good time or a half decent time. And it’s been difficult. He’s starting to get there slowly now.

But I insist on driving separately pretty much everywhere. Even with the price of petrol, it’s just insane otherwise. There always seems to be fighting. I don’t have three across the back. I’ve got a seven-seater too. We put one in the boot. We have a similar issue with one of them wanting to talk to me, yelling over the top, music playing. I don’t like that.

Or then someone’s listening to it. Someone else talks. They want it from the beginning, on and on. And one of my kids wants to listen to one song and I say to them, I can’t. I’m driving. I can’t get on my phone and go onto Spotify and change the song right now. I am driving. It’s illegal to touch your phone.

And then they’re just yelling at me because they don’t like this song and they don’t want that song. And he’s looking at me and she’s touching me and that’s my snack. And it drives you mental. And by the time we get wherever we’re going, whether it was to an appointment, to the shops or to a birthday party or even the park, something fun for them, I just feel like I just want to get back in the car and drive home because I’m so cranky and I’m so dysregulated and overloaded.

Lucy Holister:
And it’s period too, because my hubby still goes to the gym quite a lot and it’s really beneficial for him mentally. He comes back a better person. It’s one of those trade-offs that you have long term. But if he goes to the gym for an hour or an hour and a half, for him, the time’s really quick and he’s rushed. He hasn’t necessarily wanted to do what he wanted to do. He didn’t do his warm down.

In his mind, his perspective is that he’s rushed. And for me, to try and minimize impact. My perspective is that I’m a hundred years old at this point. It doesn’t feel like 90 minutes. And depending on how it’s gone, it’s not always like that. But depending on how it’s gone, it can be.

And then there’s that difference in perspective where a short period can just end you with intensity. A 10-minute drive is the same. We only live seven minutes from the school and I do pick up and it kills me. It actually kills me inside. I go to pick them up and I’ve only got two at this point, although they hate each other the most.

And they will jump into the car and just battle, physically kill each other. I had both of my boys in the car the other day and I was driving on a highway and I hear some sounds and I turned around. On a highway, I’m going 110. One of them has wrapped a seatbelt around the other one’s neck, trying to strangle it.

And I’m like, it’s a five-minute drive or it’s a 10-minute drive. How has this spun out of control? And that’s where I think it can be a really difficult experience because you arrive at the park, it’s nine o’clock, you’ve been run over by a fucking car. That’s how it feels. But it might feel like everyone else arrives pretty easily.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah. Sometimes I feel like I turn up and it’s almost like I’m very critical of myself as well. And I feel like everyone’s looking at me like, oh, the circus is here. Because usually we roll up, I’ve got my child who is in the boot seat banging on the window to open the boot, hurry up, mom.

And I’m barely out of my car seat, getting the others out of theirs, getting organized, whatever. I feel like I’m yelling at them, get off the road, get on the grass, come grab your water bottle, where’s your heart? And by the time we actually walk over to the park, I feel like we’re a walking circus, that everybody is looking at us because we’re so loud and we come in force almost.

And sometimes it’s really embarrassing, but I’ve just had to be a bit like, you know what? I’m sick of thinking that everyone else is judging me when really probably no one gives a shit what we’re doing because they’re too busy with their own kids and dealing with their own problems. But some days it feels like you get there, it’s chaos.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And it’s funny because then if you turn up and let’s say you’re at a birthday party or something and then someone goes and it’s only they’ve been being nice. Hi, how are you? Or whatever it is. And you’re just thinking to yourself, I am not very happy, but you go, I’m good. How are you?

And then sometimes I just go to the toilet to just sit in the cubicle alone and just not necessarily cry, although that has happened, but sit and take a few deep breaths, right? In a dirty public toilet just to reset, right? Just to reset. But you can’t because of your kids.

Because I don’t know what they’ll do. That can be really difficult too when, for example, let’s say you have your period and you really need to go to the bathroom, but you can’t because you’ve got a circus show, kids running on the road and all over the place and fighting. And we need to go now because I need to use the bathroom.

And they dick around for 15 minutes running up the playground so I can’t get them and chasing each other and fighting. And you’re like, I could literally wet myself in a time that you guys are messing around. And again, this is the parks and motherhood that are shit because if you’re at a public park by yourself with three kids, there’s not options.

You can’t leave them. Like you said, you don’t know what they’re going to do to each other. You don’t know what they’re going to do to other people. My kids are great explorers and they go and explore places that they probably shouldn’t too far away from the park.

I can’t just leave them. I need to make them come with me. And that is sometimes a mission. And it’s fine if the toilet’s in the right in the middle of the park and you just pop in quickly. But if it’s actually off to the side, which they often are, that’s where the problems for me hit in that if I go to the toilet and just go, I’m going to wet myself, I’m going to go to the toilet.

If I go and do that and I come back, I honestly do not know if they’re there. One time I did that and what happened in that time period, because it was in the park close to our house, they all got on their bikes and rode home. I came back, I did not know where they were.

And my husband was away and I was like, okay, so I don’t know what to do. And then I was thinking, okay, get on your bike and ride home and assume they’re there. But if I do that, what if they’re not there and I haven’t left the park? What if they’d gone in the other direction? They come back to the park and now I’m gone.

It does your head in when you just can’t predict if they’re going to follow their impulses, what their impulse is going to be.

Lucy Holister:
When we lived in our old house, we were right near school and Noah, who’s our middle child, six and a half years old, he would leave school without his older brother and just ride home without him. And Charlie would come home and he’d be like, mum, is Noah here? And I’m like, what do you mean? He’s meant to be with you.

It’s a four minute bike ride from school to home. Why is he not with you? And we’d have to get in the car and same as you, what if I leave to go and find him? But he actually comes home in that time. He’s not going to know where the hell we are.

And it’s just that one day I went and got in the car and I drove and I found him and he was nowhere near where he was meant to be. And I just said to him, what are you doing? Where are you going? Why aren’t you at home with your brother? And he said, I just wanted to go this way. We don’t really go this way often. So I wanted to go this way.

And it’s just him just not considering safety or anyone else. And sometimes I’m like, what is going through your mind?

Jane McFadden:
You and I are similar in that we’re, it’s like the simple things that should be simple just seem to go insane. If I go for a bike ride with just the oldest two, and then what will happen is they will have an argument over who’s first. And then let’s say someone doesn’t let the other one pass them.

And then they just both lose it. They both fly off the handle and then go on the bike path into separate directions. I do not know where to go because whichever way I go, I’ve left one and I’m yelling off the top of my voice and I’m screaming like a crazy lady. And then I have to drive, pick a direction.

Usually I go with the littlest one and then try and figure out where they are. And it’s those things that make me crazy.

Lucy Holister:
Yeah. We used to have a running joke with our neighbors to see how far we could get before somebody fell off their bike, had a fight, refused to walk any further. One day we got to the bottom of the driveway and just around the corner, maybe a hundred meters before Noah fell off his scooter. Charlie didn’t want to ride his bike and refused to keep going.

Delilah was quite little and she was screaming in the prim. She didn’t want to be in the prim. And I remember thinking, no, fuck all of you. This just took me 30 minutes to get everybody dressed, everyone to have shoes on, me to get dressed, my shoes on.

Everyone’s got a water bottle. You’ve all got your helmets, your bikes, blah, blah, blah. We’re going on this walk because I spent so much time. But we would have this joke, how far will I get today? Will I get a walk in?

And I think being a parent that I never thought would be difficult. And when people say to me about exercising and things and they go, your kids are active. Why don’t you all jump on your bikes or go for a walk? And I just, I laughed so hard because I think just got no clue. No idea.

Jane McFadden:
I remember the Queensland one. We were locked down a few, nothing compared, but I had all these rules around. You didn’t sit down at the park or the beach. Yeah. Able to go on one exercise per day and you had to be moving, not speaking and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff come and move you along.

So we had, I think she, I had three kids. I had the ages, I think it was five, three and one. So we would spend all day getting ready to leave the house, which was the only thing we’re allowed to do.

And we try and get on bikes and it’s exactly what you would describe, like complete mayhem. And the only paths that’s around here is like on a slope. And so you’d have kids going up the top of their hill, flying down the hill, all kinds of things to try and get some exercise out.

But at the end of it, there would be screaming, we’d be carrying bikes, everyone would be crying. And I just want to sit at the beach for just 10 minutes just to let them have a bucket and spade because we can’t keep moving because and enjoy that. The kids won’t move. They just stand there and cry or whatever it is.

And I would just watch other families on bikes looking like they’re enjoying themselves. And it’d be like, what is wrong with us? Why can’t we do this thing?

Lucy Holister:
Sometimes I would get really jealous of families who were able to go on these lovely walks or bike rides and things. And I would look at them and think, how do you people do this? What is the magic trick that makes your children to go on the bike ride, stay on their bikes the whole time?

You want to go on, follow you, whatever. Because if I could learn that trick and help my kids, maybe we could do some exercise all together as well. Maybe that’s what we could do. But we could never do it.

Jane McFadden:
It’s funny though because we can’t do this stuff on yourself. If I was more organized, if I communicated better, if I did this better, if I took water, if I had have done this. But actually that’s not true because if you’ve got kids that follow impulses, that have got not the best emotional regulation, let’s say, then really it’s a recipe for disaster.

And often then I’m hanging on anxiety because I’m thinking at any point these kids are going to split. They’re going to go down different bike paths and I’m probably going to lose one. Then you’re adding to the stress.

And where we are, we don’t really have that many paths and things. So I’m talking like we have to ride along a road at multiple points. We’re riding along roads. And my middle child has this thing with riding across roads in a kind of zigzaggy motion.

And I just think you’re going to get hit by a car, mate. And he says to me sometimes, no, mom, I won’t. I’m too quick. And I just think you just have no idea of the dangers that are out there. And like you said, the anxiety of it all, it’s awful.

Trying to go for a walk for my mental health and for physical health becomes worse for my mental health. And I’m not really exercising anyway because I’m so busy reining in kids. So it’s not really all that great a time.

So we know that ADHD kids are developmentally 30% behind a typical kid. This is confronting, if you haven’t heard this before, but we know that they’re probably going to live with this for a little bit longer. We look at what our kids should, and I’m air quoting for everybody that’s listening, should be doing.

Like let’s say a typical eight-year-old should be able to put their shoes on, have breakfast, brush their teeth by maybe two prompts, let’s say. I’m just talking, I have no idea what a decent normal ask or a neurotypical child would have. I think they’re all very different. But in my mind, I would expect my eight-year-old to be a little bit better at that than to be the worst.

So she’s by far worst at eight. So if we know that mentally they are behind, I think mine are behind by more than 30%, but that’s the standard. Then I suppose it can be a little hard because we know that those parts of childhood are going to last longer.

The physically hard parts where you have to prompt, get them dressed, that’s inside out. They still can’t figure out how to put that back outside. How do you keep yourself motivated? Is there anything that you do to try and keep the kids happy or yourself or you got any tips for anyone listening?

Lucy Holister:
It is hard. I feel a little bit like I’m welling up inside in a way because I know that both my husband and I sometimes expect a lot from our kids and it’s hard to sometimes go, I know they’re neurodivergent. I know this. So I have to remind myself of exactly what you just said. They will be a bit slower to learn those skills.

And I think one of the biggest things for me is reminding myself that not too long ago, I was a child and I was a teenager who absolutely hated getting out of bed in the morning, hated brushing my teeth. I hated getting ready for school.

I have to remind myself of that and that helps me. And I think being neurodiverse myself, it helps me to understand how they are feeling during these times. The biggest thing for me is having some patience and some understanding and also trying different things like making it fun and making it exciting.

And as much as it is a lot of pressure on myself and a lot of energy and a lot of commitment from myself, I definitely think trying to make it fun and just also remembering that time goes so quickly. And these three kids who are now in school who walk and talk and one day they were my little newborn babies.

If I try and remember that, I just think I love these people so much. So why wouldn’t I help them in all the ways possible to help them have a good day, help them get their shoes on if that’s what it takes. As frustrating as it is, that’s what we have to do sometimes.

Jane McFadden:
We’re going to finish up. Is there anything that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to add?

Lucy Holister:
I don’t think so. I think that we’ve covered a lot today, but I think just motherhood is tough. Whether you are neurodivergent or neurotypical, motherhood is tough and we’re all in it together.

Jane McFadden:
We do. And I think what’s great about ADHD mums is that for people that listen to this podcast, they’re invested in their kids. And we’re talking to the mums who just, they want to do it better. They love their kids so much. Parenting is only hard when you care. If you didn’t care, it would be easy.

If you just slept in and did nothing and didn’t help them and they got to school by themselves, that would be easy. Showing up every single day, it takes so much resilience and strength from all of us. So thanks for sharing your story, Lucy. I really appreciate it.

And this motherhood series has been really popular so far. So I know that this is going to speak to a lot of women, even just you and I talking about going to a park and stuff. I’m like, oh, that’s me too. It’s so difficult.

I’ve really enjoyed speaking to you and I really hope this helps a lot of people. So thank you so much for your time.