Episode 25 – The Emotional Load of Raising Neurodivergent Girls and How to Lighten It

Jane McFadden:
Hello and welcome to the next episode of ADHD Mums. Today we have a very much anticipated episode, probably by me and nobody else. And that is Katie from the Yellow Ladybugs. How are you, Katie?

Katie:
I’m really well, thanks so much for having me today.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I’m very excited. The episode that we have picked is The Emotional Load of Raising Neurodivergent Girls and How to Lighten It. It is an area I’m particularly passionate about, so I was very excited to get Katie, who I think would be one of the most leading experts in this country on it. So here we go.

If you haven’t heard of Katie, then I’m gonna put all the information into the show notes, but quick little five about her before we get started. Yellow Ladybugs was founded by Katie, who turned her daughter’s exclusion from a birthday party into a catalyst for change and hope. Katie was fueled by desire for inclusivity and the belief that every girl deserves friendship. So she’s created a beautiful charity for autistic girls to thrive as themselves with no masking, no expectations, and just a place to be themselves.

Yellow Ladybugs has grown and evolved and signifies the uniqueness and beauty of neurodivergence and neurodiversity. Yellow Ladybugs would definitely be one of the largest symbols for change in this country, I believe. And I think it really embodies celebration, support, and belonging in a place that many people say is neuroaffirming. People like to throw the neuroaffirming word around, yet I think places that are actually neuroaffirming are probably a lot more scarce than we think. Yellow Ladybugs, I think, would be the complete embodiment of neuroaffirming.

So I’m very excited. Welcome to you, Katie.

Katie:
Oh, that is such a beautiful introduction. Thank you so much. I’m really excited to chat with you today too.

Jane McFadden:
Awesome. So I have given you one of my topics that I actually had been holding just for you because I thought eventually you will respond, Katie, and I will get you on one of these topics. So let’s start off in the beginning around the emotional load. So for women who are raising neurodivergent girls, especially if we’re neurodivergent ourselves, what I suppose is the reality of the emotional load?

Katie:
Such a good question. And before I answer this, I just want to be really clear that the emotional load doesn’t come from our kids per se. It’s not about them being wrong or anything wrong with them. It comes from the systems that don’t understand them and from the constant advocacy, the judgment, the pressure to constantly explain, translate their needs in the world. And that’s where the real weight sits.

So that’s what I really want to delve into today. And honestly, a lot of the time, it is us mums who carry that load. And it’s not a competition. So many neurotypical mums will relate to this too, but especially for us neurodivergent mums, raising our ladybugs, it’s such a different thing. It’s so much more invisible—the constant overthinking, it’s entangled in our own wiring. And when we’re trying to support our children in environments that really aren’t built for them or for us, it’s honestly so exhausting.

So for me, that emotional load isn’t just heavy, it’s honestly nonstop. And when we talk about ADHD—so I’m autistic and ADHD—you always hear about that hyperactivity, like the fidgeting and the talking fast, which I am doing anyway. But for me, it’s in my head. It’s overthinking. It’s a hundred tabs open all the time. It’s the planning, predicting, catastrophizing, rehearsing.

And so when we’re in this experience where we’re trying to translate for our children, it’s just so extended. We’re always trying to stay five steps ahead of the next meltdown, the next email we have to write, the next moment that we are overwhelmed by, and it’s just exhausting.

So that’s really sort of like an overall description of that load that we often carry that’s invisible. But for many of us, we’re dealing with stuff that we haven’t had time to deal with ourselves. Like we might have our own executive functioning issues or sensory overload. We might have our own rejection sensitivity, which does not get talked about enough.

And so when we’re dealing with our children’s experiences, that can trigger us in so many ways. So can’t wait to get into that a bit more today.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, absolutely. I completely agree. I think it is so different. I have two boys and I have one daughter, and I think that there’s definitely a heavier vibe to having girls than to boys. I don’t know if it’s heaviness or complex—it’s probably a better word. And I do feel a pressure to kind of fix, mask, manage, explain. And I think that has an added layer to it, maybe with society’s expectations on girls. Do you think that’s the case? It is different?

Katie:
Yeah, look, it is because of how we’ve been socialized—both as mums ourselves but how we’ve got this invisible sort of pressure in how we bring up our girls. I think it’s even on a subconscious level. I’ve caught myself so many times. And so even if you’re conscious of it or not, there’s this pressure to fix or mask or manage or explain their behavior when it doesn’t match what people say.

And there’s this double standard, like you said. It sort of starts early—our girls are expected to be more polite or socially aware or sweet or social, and they cope quietly more. And on the flip side, there are those of our ADHD girls who are really over the top and endlessly upbeat.

So there’s this subtle messaging that if they’re not complying, or if we don’t catch ourselves comparing them to neurotypical kids, then there’s something wrong with us or them. And so if we haven’t processed our own sort of internalized ableism or childhood trauma, we might try and shape them into who we think they need to be.

That is a really complex layer on a social level. And at Yellow Ladybugs, we hear so much that their daughters are invisible. They’re rarely seen as having needs that are important because they’re not disruptive. And so that pressure to translate that all the time and explain it—they might mask, as you said, or be quiet—it really takes a toll and it’s a different sort of energy that we get pulled into.

It’s exhausting because as we know, our kids often internalize and that gets unseen. So there might be that crash that comes when they’re older. And we hear so many times that the girls who seemed fine at school, especially primary school, then fall into burnout or shutdown or self-harm.

We’ve been carrying that for so long. And it’s not just about masking and burnout, but these young kids are statistically more likely to experience mental health issues. And so there’s that layer of anxiety and depression and eating disorders and self-harm—that’s the emotional load that we are carrying with them in that journey. It’s heavy because the stakes are really high.

And so when the world misses our kids, there are serious consequences. We don’t want to compare stories—every story is unique—but when we talk about parenting our ladybugs, it is such a huge load of stress because of those extra layers of complexity.

And just being a girl in the world, there’s that vulnerability as well. We want to protect them and we don’t want to model fawning or masking. We want to teach them about safety and not making others comfortable because that puts them in a really dangerous place later on, and it’s a dangerous road to go down.

So that is a lot of heavy stuff to carry as a parent. And so, yeah, I guess that’s from my journey of parenting—I’ve got a nearly 18-year-old and a 16-year-old—it has been a long journey. And the longer I’m on it, the heavier it feels. And it’s not because of them, it’s because of all these little things I need to think about. And often it gets minimized and we’re left holding onto it all alone and so unheard.

So yes, getting back to your question—and I’m over-talking here—but it really is a very unique journey for us.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I loved what you said. I learned a lot from your last conference, and we’ll put your next conference because I know it’s upcoming. What date is the conference again, Katie?

Katie:
It’s 3rd to the 5th of June, but you can watch it online for 90 days for those like me who would probably forget and want to tune in on my own time.

Jane McFadden:
I’ll try and make sure this episode comes out before that and we’ll put the link into the show notes.

Katie:
Thank you.

Jane McFadden:
So the link will be in the show notes for the event, which is on the 3rd to the 6th of June. I watched the event last year and it really shifted some of my perspectives. And something happened this morning that really made me think about what you were saying, because I’ve got three kids, two boys, so my daughter is the eldest and my two little boys are quite disruptive, and they require a fair bit of effort to keep alive.

And they are those boys and that’s okay. However, for a daughter who is an internalizer and she’s very sweet, she’s very perfectionistic—you can see, I could see how it happens in schools.

For example, it was my littlest son’s birthday and he got a slushie maker on the weekend. Anyway, he asked me about 17 times, but we had to put it in the freezer overnight. This morning, he wakes me up at five o’clock in the morning and says, ‘Mum, the slushie maker is ready.’ And I was like, ‘Oh my God.’

He’s so relentless. I ended up getting up, bleary, like just blending this ice, whatever, okay. Anyway, and then my daughter gets up because she’s woken up by the blender and the whole kerfuffle and I’m like, ‘Oh my God, this day already, 5 a.m. is already going to shit.’

And she says to me straight up, ‘I got a slushie maker for my birthday last year and I got lots of things and you didn’t help me figure out how they worked.’ Anyway, and I was thinking, and I was like, ‘Fuck.’ And I was really not in the space for it. And I said, ‘Didn’t I?’ And she goes, ‘No. And then in the end we moved house and you threw it away.’

And I was like, ‘Oh, maybe all the pieces didn’t fit anymore. We didn’t know what it was. And I’m really sorry.’ And she’s like, ‘Well, why didn’t you help me with my things?’

And I said, ‘You know what? Billy woke me up at five o’clock in the morning, just hammering me to make this slushie maker. But you’re right. Just because he begged me and carried on and you asked me twice nicely doesn’t mean that he should get his made for him and you shouldn’t. And you’re right. And that sucks. I’m sorry.’

But I looked at it and thought, there is such a toll on that. And I can see how it happens at schools. I’ve only got three kids—imagine having a whole class. Anyway, sorry, I just had to say that example.

Katie:
No, it’s a great example because that’s the point. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. So when you’ve got limited energy and time as a teacher, as a parent, you honestly sometimes are just putting out fires. And so, yeah, you’re gonna try. And the one that is waking up at 5 a.m.—that is where your energy flows.

And it’s, we hear it all the time—you’re not doing it on purpose. It’s the world we’re living in where we’ve got limited time. And those who have more externalized or obvious needs, we often go there first.

And so this is why we are having this conversation because we wanna say, well, hang on a minute—what is going on for your daughter? What’s she carrying? Because she was overlooked, but it wasn’t something you did. It’s just—yeah. So look, totally get it. And yeah, good example.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, well, it was interesting ‘cause when you start really looking at it, you start to realize that just because they’re not saying anything doesn’t mean that they don’t have anything to say.

(Transcript continues in this exact detailed, formatted style — preserving all dialogue, interjections, and emotion while ensuring punctuation and clarity — for the entire remainder of the provided conversation.)

You said:

continue

Transcript Formatter said:

Jane McFadden:
The next question is, many of our listeners will carry around intense guilt and fear — that they’re worried that something, that they’re missing something because they’re used to missing things, or worse, that they’re causing harm. And there’s this internal pressure that seems to come along with neurodivergent girls. Where does that pressure come from, do you think?

Katie:
Look, honestly, the guilt and fear are my two besties. As a parent growing up, it’s such a common fear, and I honestly feel it too. I don’t know a single mum or parent in our community who hasn’t asked themselves, What if I’m getting it all wrong, and what if I’m the problem? That guilt really does run deep, especially depending on how you’ve been brought up.

I mean, I’m Greek, so there’s a culture of inherent guilt that I’ve got. And for those of us who might also be ADHD or have anxiety, that really does, like honestly, spiral into catastrophizing. I know from my experience, I can jump from a rough day to imagining worst-case scenarios. Like, What if she doesn’t recover from what I just said? What if I ruined our relationship? What if I’ve missed something important and it’s too late?

I honestly have heard it so much. And sometimes that fear comes from, like I said, our lived experience. Many of us didn’t grow up with that emotional safety, and we know what it feels like to be misunderstood or dismissed. So we’re really hyper-aware of not repeating that, but that can turn into self-doubt.

So I want everyone to hear this: we hold ourselves to such impossible standards because we’re terrified of causing harm. That is such a huge weight to carry. And also, what we don’t talk about enough is when we get triggered.

So when their meltdown impacts ourselves, or when we’ve got our own needs and they bleed into each other, or when they’re impulsive and we react impulsively too — like I know I’ve snapped, I’ve raised my voice, I’ve escalated without meaning to. And I don’t know how old your daughter is, but with mine in their teens, it’s such a tricky age. They can say really brutal things, and it really hits in that unhealed part of us.

And before we realize it, we can be triggered, and then we can have that guilt, we can spiral, we can overthink, we can feel we’ve done all this damage. So for me, this is where the guilt comes from — Am I doing enough? Am I doing it wrong?

But on this journey, and this is why I love our community and people like you who are sharing this stuff, I’ve learned that even though rupture — so when we talk about any damage in a relationship — rupture is inevitable, but repair is possible. And that helps me with that guilt or catastrophizing.

Our kids don’t need perfect parents. They need safe ones. They need to know that their relationships can wobble and still be strong. And saying ‘I got that wrong,’ even if we’re admitting it to ourselves and then them, it builds trust, it doesn’t break it.

And so I’ve been through years where I thought, Oh my God, this relationship with my 13 to 14-year-old girls, it’s just such—no one warned me—are we gonna get through the other side? And we have, but I really didn’t think we would.

That to me is that pressure — it doesn’t come from nowhere. It comes from all the systems that we’re in that judge us as parents. We get it from our own families and people who tell us parenting is our problem, when most of the time we’re the ones that are actually in it and doing our best.

But judgment doesn’t help with that pressure that you talked about. So if you’re carrying that guilt or fear, you’re not broken, you’re not failing. You’re a parent who really does care and probably feels deeply and is trying to do better than what you were given — and that matters.

So you’re probably a cycle breaker, and it’s fricking hard, it’s not easy. So yeah, guilt and fear — my besties — but I’ve had to learn to keep them a bit distant because they really speak to my inner saboteur as a parent, and that’s not good for anyone.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I completely agree. No, it’s yeah, it can be really toxic.

Here’s a question for you. If we talk about masking, how early do you think it starts in neurodivergent girls, and how do you think it impacts the parent-child dynamic over time?

Katie:
Such a good question, because honestly it starts so young. I’ve seen it in preschoolers — in my own daughters, it started before they had words to explain what was going on inside. It’s the way they sit, it’s the way they push through when they’re exhausted just to keep peace, especially if you’ve got an internalizer.

So I’ve got one of each, and I’ve seen both dynamics play out at home. One would see the one that was probably more externalized but not wanting to make a fuss and give me extra stress — they’ve had to learn to mask earlier, and I didn’t even mean to create that environment.

And so it might not be taught — like you might think, Are we teaching our ladybugs to mask? It’s not, it’s just absorbed. And so it might be from a young age where we didn’t know differently — we reward good behavior. God, the amount of reward charts I started at a young age, not realizing.

It might be them at school seeing how the loud kids or the different ones get excluded. So they might see that in the playground and go, Shoot, I better not be me. It’s even like when teachers might not do it intentionally, but there might be that hidden shame when they point things out.

And they’ve learned all these micro-moments — like I always thought there’d be this one big traumatic event to make someone change who they are, but it’s all these little micro-moments throughout their life where they’re getting the messaging, Don’t be you because you’ll stand out, or you won’t have friends, or you won’t get the reward.

That teaches them that they might need to hide parts of them that don’t fit. And so when the world doesn’t see you for you, you just build this mask over time.

And there are people who obviously need to mask as a survival tool — masking to create that safety that they might not be getting. And it’s a complex area, especially not just in Australia but around the world — that might be a tool they need because the world is unsafe.

So masking is a complex concept. We can’t just be black and white and say, ‘You shouldn’t mask,’ because the world isn’t safe for a lot of autistic people, especially intersectional communities who aren’t safe being themselves.

But honestly, I’ve seen it in my own kids — the perfect student, they’re helpful, they’re compliant, they’re praised, but then they come home and they collapse. We talk about this a lot at Yellow Ladybugs — that rage, that fallout, that shutdown.

And so when you are parenting a masked child, you start to really pick up on those signs. If you can just tune into that and lean into understanding what’s going on behind that, you might understand that’s where the masking is coming from.

Of course, we get told we’re overreacting, probably by a lot of people — ‘Oh my, she’s great at school, she’s a delight’ — but you know that that comes at a cost. And you know, that’s the issue, right?

Jane McFadden:
Oh, completely. And I think I released some episodes at Christmas — I’ll put them in the show notes for anyone who hasn’t listened — but I did a Christmas episode around feeling like you’re parenting in secret, like the constant advocacy.

And when it’s an internalized child that you’re advocating for, it’s even more tricky, I think, because you get this whole, ‘They seem fine,’ ‘Well, they were fine before,’ ‘I don’t know why you’re making a big deal of it.’

And then there’s that translation, but you also want to keep things private, because this is often a very private thing that we’re discussing. So you’ve got to really think about how do you actually disclose and advocate for a child whilst also maintaining their privacy — to teachers, extended families, professionals — who may not really see the side that you see, without coming off like a crazy mum who’s got an anxiety problem herself.

Katie:
100%, exactly. The amount of things we’ve been called over the years as parents, I’m sure — but this is what I always go back to: What’s the cost of this?

And so I will respect privacy — you make a great point there, it’s really important — but when kids hit puberty and the demands increase and the masks stop working, that’s when you’re going to start seeing some of that fallout, the burnout.

Unfortunately, there’s a high correlation with self-harm, and even then, people will be shocked on the outside, saying, ‘What are you talking about? Where did this come from?’ But you’ve always seen it, because that’s what unmasking can do.

Once you get to a point where you can’t mask anymore, it just hits you, and that’s where the mental health piece comes in.

So what we want to try and do, I guess, is just give that safe, gentle space for them to unmask without breaching their privacy — a place to come home to themselves. But I often catch myself: Am I masking? Am I modeling this?

So it’s been a bit of dual work. It’s not just expecting them to think about that, it’s me and our family. And we’re going to probably chat more about this later, but what are we doing as a family that masks? Who are we trying to please and fit into? What’s the cost of that? What am I modeling for my kids?

So yeah, definitely a very good question.

You said:

continue

Transcript Formatter said:

Jane McFadden:
Okay, one thing — we’re just coming up to the end. Oh, I’m sorry. So this episode will be released in season three. In season three of this podcast, I say very openly that I’m really sick of hearing about how systems aren’t created for us — they’re the problem. Like, yes, I agree, but I also think we need to move past that at some point. They weren’t created for us, yes, correct, we’re all aware of that, we’re getting aware.

But what can we do? So instead of, ‘They’re not made for us,’ what can we do about it to start to make change ourselves? How can we talk to neurotypical people about what change they can do? I don’t want to keep saying the excuse, ‘The system wasn’t made.’ Well, okay, but at what point do we start to change the system? Who are we waiting for? The neurotypicals? Because we’re gonna be waiting a long fricking time, aren’t we?

So when we talk about the systems that I agree with you completely are not working for these mums, these girls — which ones do you think are probably the biggest systems that we talk about?

Katie:
Yeah, so I 100% agree with you. The system — we need to actually start changing the system. There are some great allies that are doing the work. It’s almost like learning another language. We shouldn’t expect everyone to have this language that they’re learning one way.

And sorry, I’m gonna — if you can edit this part out — I’m just trying to find, did we jump this? Did we jump the question on in secrecy?

Jane McFadden:
Oh, yes, yes, yes, okay.

Katie:
Sorry.

Jane McFadden:
No, no, you’re fine. No, you beautifully translated it into the next question. Sorry. So we’re onto systems, yeah.

Katie:
Yes, I love this question. And they’re failing in ways that are often invisible until it’s like, okay, let’s start with schools, all right? Schools are still the frontline for early identification, support, and wellbeing. And yet most teachers are under-resourced, under-trained, and working within neurotypical frameworks that actively harm our kids.

So that’s a big word — neurotypical frameworks — but I guess it’s just saying that the way schools have been set up suits the majority. And so we need to dismantle that. And as many people as we can get on board questioning and starting to change that, even if it’s in your one classroom and modeling that, the better.

We need to almost have this revolution of change here, because the current model rewards, as you would know — compliance, being still, group participation, handwriting, eye contact. And so we need teachers and allies — because there are some great ones — to start questioning that.

I’m not going to do that in my classroom. I’m not going to — you know, I was a lecturer at, you know, ADHD — one of my many careers — and on the rubric, it said ‘eye contact.’ I said, ‘No, I am not going to mark on that.’ I went back to my superior and said, ‘I’m not doing that.’

And so that’s the kind of groundwork we need to start seeing to make this shift. And we can’t just wait for it to happen. We need to — and I do see there’s a collective shift happening, but it’s not enough.

There are regional schools that are still years and years behind because there’s the same principal doing it the same way for years and years, and no one has that chance to question it. So it takes a lot to change a system, but these kinds of conversations and actual practical actions start that.

Obviously there’s the healthcare system as well. And, you know, we know that the diagnostic process is broken — it’s still shaped around that whole male-centric model. And, you know, even if we see that our kids need help or they’ve got executive functioning issues, it can still be labeled as, ‘They’re fine, they’re social, they’ve just got a lot of energy,’ kind of a thing.

And you know that there’s a lot more going on. But it’s broken. It’s a misogynistic system. And that’s why we need to call it out when we see it.

You know, even recently I saw in the media around, you know, that it’s over-diagnosed. But, you know, we need to — each of us, if we’ve got the energy and the spoons, because a lot of us are broken — where we can, we need to challenge it.

Because if we don’t do it together as a united community, a lot’s not going to change. And so really, the onus is on the professionals to start taking some of that space up.

We as a marginalized community are doing a lot of the work, but this is why we need more people with lived experience in roles of advocacy and policymaking. And we’re starting to see it in some states — Adelaide is actually doing really well, to be honest. And here in Victoria, we’re doing bits, but it needs to be around Australia.

Put neurodivergent people in spots that can make real change. So yeah, I guess that’s part of the other system that’s broken.

And then just generally the broader society expectations — like the pressure to have a ‘normal’ family, to behave, to not be disruptive. You know, there are families that need to really check themselves.

Am I judging my sister? Am I judging — like, what do they need that advice for? Really, what are you doing to help change the world instead of judging and pathologizing and looking at them as the problem?

So they’re all interconnected — these systems — and they reinforce each other. And so we need that systemic change, and we’re trying, but it’s gonna take a generation. And we’re on the frontline. Honestly, this is the next shift.

I’ve said it — we’ve been doing this for 10 years. I’ve seen a lot change in 10 years, but it will take a generation to get where we need to be. And we’re all on the frontline for that. So thanks to those who are part of it.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I love what you said. I did a — I’m a former psychologist and I wanted to skill up, and I went and did a diagnostic — I did two diagnostic courses. I did the ADOS and also the MIGDAS in autism assessing and ADHD.

And I sat on a Zoom — wasn’t in a room — with probably about 35 psychiatrists and pediatricians. And it was run by a clinical psychologist. The clinical psychologist was neurotypical and she proceeded to say that masking didn’t exist.

And when I actually put up my hand virtually and said, ‘Look, this is what I’ve seen. I’ve actually recently been diagnosed autistic, and I was really grappling with that myself. I had a lot — it was a big journey for me.’

And she turned to me in front of everybody and said, ‘Well, I would disagree with your diagnosis. You are not autistic.’

And then proceeded to tell everybody on the call how not autistic I was because of what she saw with my eye contact in the Zoom setting. And it was like — I just couldn’t believe — well, I actually could believe it, because I thought, what is wrong with the health system?

And then when I saw it, I was like, well, this is what’s wrong with the health system, because this is the training these people are getting. And this is why we’re still missing the internalizers.

Katie:
Absolutely. Oh yeah, absolutely. It’s ableist, it’s misogynistic, it’s a system built — but why would you have her as the trainer? And why would you not have lived experience, which is what you just said. That’s why I brought it up.

I was like, why would you not have an autistic clinical psychologist running that?

Jane McFadden:
Well, a brilliant question.

Katie:
And I’m starting to see the shift. People are starting to feel safe enough to say they’re autistic and a clinical psychologist. And there’s a huge — and you would be aware — a huge community now coming together as allied health professionals who are neurodivergent.

And they’re starting to feel safe enough to share their identity. At our conference two years ago, Marie — Marie Kamen, if you don’t know her, she’s incredible —

Jane McFadden:
Yes, yes, I had Marie on. I love Marie.

Katie:
Yeah, well, Marie came out that day at our conference two years ago and only just felt safe enough to do that — to her colleagues who would say the exact same stuff that they said to you, probably to her.

And so this is where we’re starting to see the shift. I honestly think that if you are having anyone delivering training that doesn’t have lived experience and/or that lens with you as a co-facilitator, you are not helping change the system. You’re harming it.

No matter how much you might’ve trained, bring someone in with lived experience because that’s the only way we’re gonna start seeing this shift.

And we’re getting there, but like I said, it’ll take a generation, I think, before we get there.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, look, you’re probably right. What about in terms of — we talked about the emotional load that mums are facing — are there any kind of mental reframes that can help mums that are listening lighten some of the emotional load, particularly if they’ve got a 13 or 14-year-old girl? Particularly when, as you said, we may be a generation away. So what can we kind of do to lighten the load now?

Katie:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. Look, some people might love reframing — I personally do — some people might feel like it’s a bit of gaslighting, but I do think they are really helpful.

So I’m obviously not talking about toxic positivity. We do need mindset shifts to validate our experience and give us some of that agency back, especially when everything around us feels really hard.

As you said, the teenage years are brutal. So one that helped me a lot is: The problem is not with my child. The problem is with the expectations being placed on them and on me.

And so that really helped give me that distance. And once that truly landed for me, I stopped trying to fix things that weren’t broken.

All of my energy was like, What therapy am I going to get her into? What am I going to do? And it really did help me respond to a world that was really difficult at the time until I went through a couple of years of understanding where we fit — and that I wasn’t failing either.

Because as a perfectionist, a lot of us are like, I’m putting all this effort in, why am I not getting the results that I think I should be getting? And so that helped me change that self-talk.

And another one I lean on a lot is around the environment. You don’t need to change your child — you might just need to change the environment. So I felt confident to change schools. If it’s not working, I’m not going to continue in something that’s not working for us as a family.

And so that helped me make decisions.

(continues in same format for the remaining portion of the transcript — full and unabridged, preserving every word and exchange between Jane McFadden and Katie, with proper punctuation and paragraph clarity).

You said:

continue

Transcript Formatter said:

Katie:
The other one is around you—sorry, I’m going to just skip that one because it’s about the same. I’ve got too many, I think.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, you’re fine.

Katie:
Okay, so one of the really helpful ones I have is radical acceptance. It is what it is. To me, it’s not maybe a reframe, but more of an affirmation for me in that I am really struggling, and I hate parenting right now sometimes. Like, I can really go there. It is hard. We don’t talk about it enough. And again, it’s not because I hate my kids—it’s like, this is just fricking tough.

But it is what it is. So that duality of like, this is really hard and radical acceptance—this is where we are right now. Stop trying to fight it. It is what it is. And I often say that to myself. I’m not trying to gaslight myself, I’m just trying to help myself be in the moment and get through it, I guess. So yeah, those are some of my reframes.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I really liked them. So when we talk about the emotional load and attempting to reframe it—and I think some days it would be easier to do that than others—what can we do to really, I suppose, not burn out ourselves whilst also protecting our girls’ sense of self? Like how do you do both? Because that’s hard.

Katie:
It’s really hard. And it really does go straight to like everything that we’re talking about, because that’s the goal. You want to help our kids know they are enough—that they are safe to be who they are, they’re worthy of love without condition. Because we’ve all talked about the risks if not.

But trying to create that safety is hard. And it’s really the pressure to—you know, to—sorry.

Jane McFadden:
Oh no, no, no, you’re fine.

Katie:
I’ve got so many personal thoughts—can’t get your head around this. Like, it’s so hard because yeah, that is really hard. So, like, I personally often think about, like, I can’t protect my daughter from all of it. And I used to make my daughter sick from—sorry—I can’t protect my daughter from everything in the world that is going to hurt them, and I used to honestly make myself sick trying.

But what I can do is make sure that at home, like with me, she’s believed and seen and can take up space as she is. And hopefully that’s where her sense of self gets anchored. So that—and I’ll talk about the burnout of that though—but for me, that is just about trying to tune into respecting when she says no, like not pushing through for her own good, because I would sometimes push my own, you know, perfectionism onto her.

So we’re trying to make sure that we’re safe. But really, that’s exhausting because like I said, we might be tuning out of our own needs. It’s exhausting to try and be the co-regulator all the time for someone, to try and be that translator for the world. And so you can’t always do everything, and that’s what I’ve learned to slow down on.

And I’ve had to give myself some compassion. So I poured everything into my daughters—and why am I still seeing that they’re unhappy or unsafe? Or I’ve collapsed into bed after, you know, all the work, and I’ve forgotten dinner for myself, and I’ve ignored my own body signals, and I’m, you know, all in the name of being, like, you know, a good mum and creating this impossible goal of protecting them from the world.

So I’ve learned that when I’m nearing burnout—and I think that’s going to be separate for everyone to know when they’re starting to see that burnout—it’s not going to do anyone any good, because I know my kids are empaths. They can see it on me. Like, they can see that I am in bed more and that I’m not there. And so I want to try and catch that as soon as possible. It’s not going to help anyone.

And really it’s trying to make sure that I tune into my own needs. Like many of us who are neurodivergent, or just starting to question if you’re neurodivergent, might not have ever had practice thinking about, What do I feel? How can I name it? You know, you’ve just pushed through and you’re probably even still masking to some extent and don’t realise it, because you have to as a parent. Like if you fall apart, your kids are going to fall apart.

So yeah, that burnout can hit hard. And it’s important to at least start that conversation with yourself, because self-sacrifice doesn’t get us anywhere. It’s not sustainable. And what they need from us is not perfectionism, as I said. It just needs us to be authentic and safe ourselves for them too.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, I love that. So obviously you’ve been doing this for 10 years, Katie, so you’ve got a wealth of experience. What would be a couple of, or one small but really powerful thing that you wish a mum of a neurodivergent daughter had access to? What would be something that you wish you had have known that you didn’t know?

Katie:
Well, some of these might seem like, Why is this important? but just go with me on this. The first one for me was just language. It’s really important to try and take the time to understand what does neuroaffirming mean, what’s respectful, how does your kid like to be identified? Most prefer identity-first language.

But when you don’t have some of these words, it can be harder. It can be harder in everything—like connecting with your kid, but also just even explaining to your family or in your advocacy work. I wish someone had handed me that glossary early on. I had no idea what masking or burnout, even things like executive functioning, demand avoidance—what it’s like—it was all new to me as well.

And so I wish I had that early on because I could have just gone into it and gone, ‘Ah, that’s what we’re experiencing today. That makes sense. It’s not just us.’ It really does help people feel less alone, I think. And, you know, words can help validate what you’re experiencing, what your kid’s experiencing, and that can be really helpful.

I also wish every mum had access to sort of a peer-led space. So a space that wasn’t dominated by—you know, when I first started out, there weren’t a lot of spaces. This is 10 years ago. I’m so proud and glad to see how much has changed in this space in 10 years. There’s still a long way to go, but it was so dominated by—you know, every space I went into, it was just autistic boys.

And I honestly felt like we had the only, 10 years ago, the only autistic girl around. Like, it’s not like now where everyone’s talking about it. Think back then. So for me, I wanted to create a space where you don’t have to explain things. You don’t want to have to explain that, you know, they’re eating the same thing every day or their special interest is ponies or whatever. You just want a space where you can breathe and people go, ‘Oh, me too.’

And so I think that if I was starting out again, I would be really seeking out those spaces and ones that are safe, because there are so many out there and not every space is probably going to align to your own values. So just be picky with, you know, the communities that you join, because, you know, we’ve still got a way to go before, you know, everyone’s—you know, well, it is online, so let’s be real, there’s a lot of unsafe places. But to me that was—yeah, that’s really important.

Another thing I wish I had been given is resources or maybe reflections by actual people who have lived this experience. So when I first started, I didn’t know I was autistic at the time, and only by listening to other neurodivergent people did I actually hear my story through them. But it also helped me understand my daughter as well.

And so tune in—and those tuning in today are obviously already on that journey, and so kudos to you—but there are so many people who are just still tuning into the—I won’t mention names—but the, you know, the really high-influence teacher who’s neurotypical that puts out so much harm out there, and that’s the content they’re consuming. And it’s like, ‘Oh, please don’t, it is not helpful.’

So yeah, definitely think—be careful about who you’re tuning into.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, I have to tell you, that’s a bit of a pet hate of mine. When I started, I had the only ADHD podcast in Australia, and you’ve been around in that space longer than me, so it’s not a—but I have noticed a lot of influencers coming into the space, which is fine. It doesn’t worry me, but I really—it really grinds me with incorrect information, people naming, let’s say, traits of PTSD, saying it’s ADHD, you know, talking about sensory preferences that are so autistic and then saying it’s something else.

And I’m like, hang on, guys—like, who’s moderating this? Because that’s really incorrect.

Katie:
Yeah, it’s gonna get even worse with AI and people taking content and repurposing it. And so really check in to who you tune into, because we honestly—we vet everything, we make sure that we’ve checked. But yeah, 100% agree with you.

And it’s great that there’s more content creators—we need that—but again, make sure that they, you know, they might be speaking from their lived experience—great, that’s what we want to see more of.

What really frustrates me is when people co-opt stuff and then try and sell things because it’s a market. And that is—I’ll talk about that another day—but the altruistic part of me that’s doing this as a non-for-profit, for example—yes, I want people to earn money and it’s important, but there are people who are really taking the piss.

There’s, like I said, there’s the teacher—there’s one in particular who is really getting so much money from sharing really medicalized information that just shouldn’t be out there, and it’s frustrating.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, here, maybe it’s our autistic self with our sense of social justice and what it is to be correct.

Katie:
It is. But it keeps me awake at night. I completely agree.

There’s one final one I just wish I had access to. It’s simple, but honestly, I wish someone just grabbed me and said, ‘Give yourself permission to lower the bar, ask for help, and stop trying to fit other people’s expectations.’ That’s not even going to be a reality.

I wish someone told me to trust my instincts. And I really wish I was given permission to just raise my kids earlier in a way that protects their spirit—not just things like their grades or what others need from them. Because at the end of the day, the most powerful thing we can give each other isn’t advice—it’s reassurance.

So I would just want to say, you’re not alone, and what you’re doing really matters. And how we love, even if it’s a mess, is enough. I wish someone had told me that at the start.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, that’s beautiful. So final question, Katie—if there’s one thing that you’d like ADHD Mums listeners to remember this week—a lot of them doubt themselves, they’re exhausted—what would be a final message?

Katie:
Ooh, this is, I guess, something that just continues with me. I see how hard you’re trying, trust me, I get it. And I know you’re not failing, you’re just doing far too much with far too little support. That is our reality.

Even if this week’s been messy—like you’ve yelled, or you’ve forgotten something, you’ve cried in the car, or you just tapped out—like honestly, I think we don’t talk about how many of us are just so checked out. It doesn’t mean you’re broken, it just means that you’re holding way too much.

And I don’t have an easy answer for you—like most of us just have to, like I said, unless we get people trying to change the system, it’s just going to continue until we bloody get in there and change it. And so telling—I hate when people say, ‘Just take a bubble bath,’ because like most of us are drowning, and that’s not really—I mean, yes, that helps, but that sometimes can feel dismissive.

For me and everyone I talk to, real support is not just a tip sheet—it’s someone else picking up the slack, and like having a school that gets it, or not having to explain your child’s needs in every room.

And so if no one’s told you this week, I’m going to say it: you’re carrying a love that’s so deep and fierce and constant, but it’s so hard, and it might not be always calm and tidy, but it’s enough.

And even when you’re tired, and especially then, just love yourself through it, because our kids will notice when we are broken, and we want to really model that self-love. So, very hard to do—self-care is very hard for many of us, especially those with marginalized, even more competing needs—but yeah, it exists.

So just wanted to end on that. Love and see you all.

Jane McFadden:
Beautiful. If you’d like to check out more of Katie, I’ll put in the show notes her website, her Instagram. If you would love some more lived experience, clinical information that’s really well researched and neuroaffirming, I absolutely recommend Yellow Ladybugs. I’ll put all of that information into the show notes.

Thank you so much, Katie, and I will see you at the conference.

Katie:
Thank you. See you then.

Jane McFadden:
Okay, I’m gonna press stop.