Episode 31 – Executive Function Challenges in ADHD: Strategies for Success with Claire Britton

Jane McFadden:

Are you feeling burnt out, overwhelmed? Like you’re just an Uber driver to your kid’s endless appointments? Do you wonder, is this all there is? Stop driving around and try something different. Book in with Body and Mind Online for expert speech therapy, occupational therapy, psychologists and counsellors via telehealth.

I founded Body and Mind Online five years ago and it has since been one of the most inclusive therapy centres in the country. This podcast is my passion project, but I’ve realised that by not openly recommending Body and Mind Online, I’m leaving many of you to navigate the daunting task of finding the right providers on your own.

Stop the struggle and get the support that you and your family deserve. Visit adhdmums.com.au and visit the services page to take the first step forward towards a balanced life with Body and Mind Online.

Welcome to the ADHD Mums Podcast, a safe place for everyday Australian mums to discuss their struggles with ADHD, motherhood and life.

Hello and welcome to ADHD Mums. Today we are going to tackle a topic that we throw around loosely but I don’t think often fully understand, and that is executive function.

We all talk about it, we all speculate, but yet do we really know what executive function is and how it affects us in our everyday lives? I’m not sure I do. So I’ve brought in Claire who is an OT from WA.

Claire is an ADHDer, she was diagnosed at 28. She is a wife and mum to two boys, the national team leader for paediatric occupational therapy at Concentric in Perth. She runs an Instagram page, The NeuroDivergent OT, which will be in the episode notes, and facilitates the Mental Health Professionals Network young adults with ADHD for WA.

Welcome to you Claire.

Claire Britton:

Thanks for having me. This is so exciting.

Jane McFadden:

So before we dive right in, because sometimes I start at the end, let’s go right back to the beginning. Why do you think everyone talks about executive function and ADHD all the time? Like how does it all go into one?

Claire Britton:

So executive functioning and ADHD go hand in hand. You can’t have ADHD without having executive functioning. And we sometimes talk about it in terms of deficits, and sometimes we talk about it in terms of differences.

But we’re really talking about the same thing, and it’s just around how comfortable different people are with their identity and their preferred use of words. Sometimes people are like, this is a really big deficit for me, so I’m going to call it a deficit because I really wish there was something I could overcome.

Where some people are like, it’s just a difference, it’s just who I am, and it’s just how I roll. So probably for this podcast with you, a bit of both. Adapt that to how suits you best.

But basically every single person, regardless of their diagnosis or no diagnosis, experiences executive functioning difficulties.

So things like having a late night and waking up, that’s a key sign of executive functioning differences or challenges. Things like I can’t find my keys. Most people have experienced that at some point in their life, but not everyone’s ADHD.

The way I like to think about executive functioning skills is like a business, and we have different parts of the business or different departments. And our executive functioning is really our admin team. So we can function without an admin team, right? We can go and do our job, no problem.

However, to have an admin team, to book in appointments, to follow up emails, to plan the sessions, to organise the time management, make sure the resources are exactly where they should be, is life changing. And that is basically what executive functioning is.

So it’s those cognitive skills that are the gap between having an idea and actually doing that thing.

 

Got it — thank you for clarifying! No horizontal bars, just clean headings and text. Here’s the formatted transcript beginning with the proper style:

Jane McFadden:

Are you feeling burnt out, overwhelmed? Like you’re just an Uber driver to your kid’s endless appointments? Do you wonder, is this all there is? Stop driving around and try something different. Book in with Body and Mind Online for expert speech therapy, occupational therapy, psychologists and counsellors via telehealth.

I founded Body and Mind Online five years ago and it has since been one of the most inclusive therapy centres in the country. This podcast is my passion project, but I’ve realised that by not openly recommending Body and Mind Online, I’m leaving many of you to navigate the daunting task of finding the right providers on your own.

Stop the struggle and get the support that you and your family deserve. Visit adhdmums.com.au and visit the services page to take the first step forward towards a balanced life with Body and Mind Online.

Welcome to the ADHD Mums Podcast, a safe place for everyday Australian mums to discuss their struggles with ADHD, motherhood and life.

Hello and welcome to ADHD Mums. Today we are going to tackle a topic that we throw around loosely but I don’t think often fully understand, and that is executive function.

We all talk about it, we all speculate, but yet do we really know what executive function is and how it affects us in our everyday lives? I’m not sure I do. So I’ve brought in Claire who is an OT from WA.

Claire is an ADHDer, she was diagnosed at 28. She is a wife and mum to two boys, the national team leader for paediatric occupational therapy at Concentric in Perth. She runs an Instagram page, The NeuroDivergent OT, which will be in the episode notes, and facilitates the Mental Health Professionals Network young adults with ADHD for WA.

Welcome to you Claire.

Claire Britton:

Thanks for having me. This is so exciting.

Jane McFadden:

So before we dive right in, because sometimes I start at the end, let’s go right back to the beginning. Why do you think everyone talks about executive function and ADHD all the time? Like how does it all go into one?

Claire Britton:

So executive functioning and ADHD go hand in hand. You can’t have ADHD without having executive functioning. And we sometimes talk about it in terms of deficits, and sometimes we talk about it in terms of differences.

But we’re really talking about the same thing, and it’s just around how comfortable different people are with their identity and their preferred use of words. Sometimes people are like, this is a really big deficit for me, so I’m going to call it a deficit because I really wish there was something I could overcome.

Where some people are like, it’s just a difference, it’s just who I am, and it’s just how I roll. So probably for this podcast with you, a bit of both. Adapt that to how suits you best.

But basically every single person, regardless of their diagnosis or no diagnosis, experiences executive functioning difficulties.

So things like having a late night and waking up, that’s a key sign of executive functioning differences or challenges. Things like I can’t find my keys. Most people have experienced that at some point in their life, but not everyone’s ADHD.

The way I like to think about executive functioning skills is like a business, and we have different parts of the business or different departments. And our executive functioning is really our admin team. So we can function without an admin team, right? We can go and do our job, no problem.

However, to have an admin team, to book in appointments, to follow up emails, to plan the sessions, to organise the time management, make sure the resources are exactly where they should be, is life changing. And that is basically what executive functioning is.

So it’s those cognitive skills that are the gap between having an idea and actually doing that thing.

Claire Britton:

So I have an idea of writing a book, but I need to do X, Y, Z in order to actually write the book. And the X, Y, Z is our executive functioning skills. And so we know that people with ADHD typically have 30 to 40 percent lagging of executive functioning skills compared to neurotypicals.

And we use the word lagging because it’s not that they can’t get there, it’s just that little bit behind and they’re trying to catch up. That typically looks like three to six years difference compared to neurotypicals. So when we have year sevens going to classes, looking at their timetable, knowing where they’re going, the classic ADHDers have no idea where they are. They don’t even have their diary. They’re lucky if they’ve got their shoes on.

And then I suppose you’ve got the girls that maybe they’re perfectionistic, so they have to try so hard. So they’re there with their diary, but they’ve gone through an internal hell to do that. And then they cry when they get home is the whole thing. But then the teachers say they had everything and they were where they were supposed to be, so they can’t have ADHD.

Jane McFadden:

That so makes sense. Okay, how does executive function actually work?

Claire Britton:

So executive functioning are a large group of cognitive skills and they support us to do all the daily activities that we need to do. So these include things like planning, sequencing, task initiation, emotional regulation, impulse control, and they really make an impact on our health and our well-being throughout the lifespan.

There’s actually various studies that have come out and really shown that people with ADHD who have executive functioning differences, and like we said, they go hand in hand, you can’t have one without the other, it really impacts their quality of life and their ability to do things.

A lot of the times when we think about it, we hear a lot in practice around they’re just not motivated or they just need to stop procrastinating or they just have so much potential, if only they tried harder.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, that’s it.

Claire Britton:

Exactly. And that to me is like a massive flag of executive function. It’s not that they can’t do the thing, they just can’t do the gap between having the idea and actually executing it.

So that’s the challenge of executive functioning. And in actual fact, when we become mums, that’s our biggest jump in executive functioning load. And I think it’s really great that nowadays in society we’re talking a lot more about mental load. And what we’re actually talking about when we talk about mental load is executive functioning.

But that’s a bit of a jargonistic term. The mental load is our executive functioning. So it’s the planning and the problem solving and the prioritising and all the stuff that we’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve got so much going on in my mind. Why has my husband not even thought about X, Y, Z? But I’ve been thinking about it for four days.

Jane McFadden:

I’ve just got like so many light bulbs, hey, and then I feel like they come and they want to talk to you about their day. And you’re like, don’t mind me while you tell your long story about how, you know, your friend’s husband’s dog was unwell and whether they’re better or not. And I’m just like head exploding about lunches and coordination and extracurriculars.

I just feel so envious sometimes because I look at my husband and I’m like, you don’t have all the stuff in your brain that I have. And it’s not ADHD. It’s like mental load, executive function.

This is such a great conversation because I just wish that I could have less in my mind because I’m carrying so much of all of that stuff, which is because I’m perfectionistic, difficult because I have to work so, so, so hard. And we also have neuro-spicy children, so they have more things on too that I have to organise. And it’s just this cumulative head explode.

Claire Britton:

Yeah. And I think too, what makes it really hard is being perfectionistic. We also want to come across a certain way.

And so because we want to come across like a duck on water, they don’t see those little like spins or fluffy feet cold.

Jane McFadden:

Oh no.

Claire Britton:

Yeah. No, they’re webbed feet. And then we get frustrated that they don’t understand our stress and they don’t understand why we went from zero to a hundred. And it’s like, well, actually I’ve been dealing with this for such a long time.

And for you, it’s not even registered on your day-to-day thoughts. And I think in terms of executive functioning for mums, it’s a thing that we don’t even talk about in birth classes. We talk about like a birth and the physiological thing that happens to us.

But in terms of our brain, all of a sudden, the things that we have to remember in our working memories become so much more. And that load means that other aspects of our life just aren’t performing at the same ability. And because we don’t understand that, we then think that there’s something wrong with us and there’s an issue that we should be doing exercise.

And so therefore we develop such a harsh inner critic.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. Then you’ve got like a teacher’s voice in the back of your head going, just try harder. You’re not doing well enough. Try harder, be better, be more attentive. And that’s just so defeating.

And then all you need is to go to the doctor and then have them say, well, you got here on time. You’ve got a job. You seem fine.

Claire Britton:

You don’t have that because it’s like, yeah, you’ve presented so well that you’ve almost kind of shot yourself in the foot.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Claire Britton:

And that’s definitely how women and girls typically present. And what’s really crazy is that ADHD has been a diagnosis since 1980 and there’s been no literature written about it in terms of females until 2002. So what were we doing in 20 years? We were just diagnosing men. We were just thinking this is a naughty boy thing.

And so there’s a massive gap now. And we’re finally catching up. We’re finally getting diagnosed. And now the media is saying, oh, everyone’s getting a diagnosis. But look how over-diagnosed it is. Everyone has a substory and is a victim and has a disability.

And it’s just not the case. And it’s really, really frustrating.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, it is. I completely agree. I love it how we touched on that ADHD doesn’t exist. And I’m air quoting because it’s so annoying when people talk about that. Do you think there’s an actual neurological difference or do you think it’s not?

Claire Britton:

We know 100% without a doubt that it exists and that there are neurological differences in the entire nervous system. So when we put people in fMRI machines, the brain is so different in terms of level of activity, where the activity is and how much more energy it needs to work in certain parts.

So we know that ADHD and brains have less grey and white matter in the parts of the brain that are associated with executive functioning. So when we go back to the admin team in the business, we’re actually under-resourced. So our admin team is one person.

Whereas when we have a big business and a big company, the admin team is 20 adults and they’ve got the best software and they’re doing things so beautifully. And we’re actually comparing ourselves to that. And in terms of how that helps, it just gives us the perspective of how different we are to utilise that one admin team so that we’re not burning her out, so that she doesn’t want to leave and resign.

Because ultimately, we want to work with what we’ve got as best as possible. And that supports our mental health and it supports our quality of self and how we identify.

Jane McFadden:

I love that. That’s so powerful, actually. So then, let’s just say if you had your one admin team member, I love that analogy. And then you were to find the right medication, which can be really difficult. But let’s say you did find the right medication.

How does that then work? Do you have a better admin team for the period of the time? Or how does it work?

Claire Britton:

Yes, you’ve recruited staff. You’ve got better systems in place. But you also still have to train them and do more with them because suddenly you have more energy, you have more clarity, and you can be able to realise all the things that you do actually need to do.

But you may have been procrastinating because our working memory just has so many holes that we’re actually not aware of absolutely everything we need to remember. But when we’re medicating, we’re like, okay, I need this, this, this, this, and this. And therefore, we’re actually rewiring and retraining our brain.

And by doing so, we’re upskilling that one admin team. So when we don’t take that medication, that one admin staff, she’s still only one person, but she’s got a lot more training. She’s got a lot more insight into this is different, this does need compensation.

And that is where the self-compassion and the help comes from. So it’s not just medication is going to fix it. Medication is also going to provide me perspective and confirm that this is what I’m having difficulty with.

It’s not all in my head. I’m not just lazy. I’m not just procrastinating. I’m just not motivated. It is an executive functioning difference. And it is a deficit that many ADHDers experience. And it’s because our brains are different and that’s okay.

Jane McFadden:

I love that. And I’m aware that neither of us are psychiatrists, paediatricians or doctors. So obviously we’re just talking from personal opinion for a moment, but it’s that perspective on the brain that really changed my mind on medication in regards to children. Because there is that negative connotation around lazy parenting or medicating for convenience. And that really triggered my mum guilt at the time.

And it was only when a paediatrician explained to me to my face, who I believe is one of the best paediatricians on the coast. So when she looked me in my eyes and said to me, I’m a mother, I get it. I’m telling you, let me explain to you the way the brain works when it’s medicated and the long-term effect and the improvements on the brain.

That was the moment that I stopped and went, okay, I actually am seeing this from a totally another perspective. So when you’re talking about long-term brain changes, do you agree on that? Obviously in your personal opinion?

Claire Britton:

Yes, definitely. I think the more that we have avenues like this to talk to adults who are neurodivergent, if you tell them, do you wish I had taken your medication earlier in life? I’ve never had anyone say no, that they would have preferred to start later in life. It’s completely unheard of.

One of the most amazing psychiatrists internationally for ADHD, he’s really great for saying you would not not give a kid glasses if they couldn’t see. You’re not going to send them to school and be like, look harder, squint your eyes, get up at the front of the classroom.

But for ADHD, that’s actually the norm and that has been the norm for decades and decades. And when you talk to adults who have experienced that, and they have just started medication maybe later in life, it actually is a big aha moment.

It is actually also a grieving process, which you’ve touched on in previous episodes. It is a grieving process because you realise, because I was spending so much mental load on self-critiquing and being so harsh on myself, I didn’t even have the space to understand new information, to do learning, to understand myself, to figure out strategies and things like that.

So it really is a space that we need to remove the taboo.

Claire Britton:

When I talk to people, I totally agree with you. I haven’t heard of anybody that said, I wish I wasn’t medicated or diagnosed. Not one person has said that to me ever.

If we think about executive function, what would be some typical fails or areas to improve that a mum would experience, do you think, that are having executive function challenges? A really classic one is not having nappies for babies, not having their school bag, not having the basic things they may need, like their lunchbox to school. And that doesn’t change.

Every time they go to school, they need their lunchbox. So you would think, because it’s an everyday thing, they should just know, it should just be automated, but it’s not because the planning, the sequencing, the executive functioning skills are the gap.

So it’s often the people that are late to meetings or they overcompensate and they’re actually really early because that anxiety of being late is so profound and so intense. They’re people that often interrupt because they’re scared that the thought or the idea that they had is going to disappear or they’re going to forget about it.

It’s the people that have to ask for things to be repeated again and questions to be rephrased potentially, because that working memory is just not as 100% as it typically is or as it’s expected. And I find that a lot of mums especially, one of the big things is those shoulds.

I should be able to do this. Well, what is the should? The should is actually the executive functioning skill that is lagging. That’s all that is.

It’s potentially also a bit of societal pressure and societal expectation around things like, I should have the nappy bag ready. Yeah, okay, great. But that doesn’t actually help anyone by feeling that guilt and that shame of, oh, I should be doing X, Y, Z.

However, if you come at it from a place of, I know that I’m probably going to forget my keys. So I’m going to put my keys in the front door. So as I open the front door, the keys are right there because I know what I’m like. And therefore, it’s not something that’s going on and on in my working memory.

It’s not an idea I’m having that I’m trying to problem solve or pre-emptively problem solve all these problems that I have because I feel like I’m broken or I need fixing. It’s just, this is what works for me and this is what I do.

Jane McFadden:

So if we have a mum with executive function challenges, that’s going to be pretty difficult on everybody because a few paediatricians have said to me that however many people are in your house, like in terms of children, you’re the PA, the personal assistant for three, two, four, five, six people plus yourself.

So how does the lack of executive function from a mum impact on then children and then their modelling? Like how does that all work?

Claire Britton:

Because of a thing called mirror neurons. So in our brain, we have these neurons that actually imitate those around us. So if we see a parent who’s able to put the shoes at the front door before they go to school, they’re much more likely to be like, okay, I’m going to go do the same thing.

So that monkey see, monkey do kind of thing. And that’s really pivotal for learning across the lifespan.

So what we really want to do is we want to ensure that we have some coping support, whether that be medication, some OT or psychology or things like body doubling. It’s really important to be able to understand those skill gaps so that we can provide the compensation.

So that way they’re using that mental load to increase their performance, increase their learning rather than to cause that hyperactivity of the catastrophising thinking, I’m a bad person, I should be able to do this, everyone else is doing this, therefore no one likes me.

And that kind of catastrophising thinking is really common because that hyperactivity is being triggered by those emotions that they’re not able to process because emotional regulation is an executive functioning skill.

We understand executive functioning skills are absolutely foundational to learning. So when someone is showing differences in the way that they’re able to learn in different environments, it’s really common for parents to say to us, they’ve learned so well at home, like they’re really great with Lego or they can really rattle off a whole heap of animal facts, it’s amazing.

But then they go to school and they don’t even remember what subjects they had today. And that’s because stress is a big impact on our executive functioning. The minute that we’re stressed, our executive functioning is out the window.

So we aren’t thinking logically.

Jane McFadden:

So if we do move to strategies, what would be some takeaways that we could leave some of the mums with on this episode on executive function?

Claire Britton:

So the biggest one that we do, and I feel like we need to give mums the acknowledgement that we deserve in that sense that we naturally compensate so beautifully. It’s not often until we talk to someone else that we realise that what we do, not everyone does.

And I remember at mum’s group, someone was like, oh yeah, I just keep nappies in the back of the car all the time. I’m like, that’s brilliant. And then some people are like, oh yeah, I just have a separate pram for the car. I’m like, oh, I love that. Then you don’t forget things.

Oh, I just have, you know, one of those AirTags. Great. You’ve just compensated so beautifully. You’re not even aware that that’s a strategy until you may go somewhere where that’s not an option.

You may rent a car and stuff that you have in your car that you use so readily available isn’t there anymore that you realise. We see that a lot, especially with things like internet. The internet cuts out and suddenly I don’t have reminders. I don’t have any of my emails and my resources that I use naturally. I wasn’t even aware that I was that reliant on it until it’s gone.

Another big one is body doubling. So often we do this with our partners really well because naturally we gravitate to people who do things that we wish we could do or are able to have abilities that complement our abilities.

So like for me, my husband is logistics man. I have the ideas and then I’ll be like, okay, so I’m going to go to this thing at seven o’clock tonight. What time do I need to leave? What do I need to bring? What time should I start getting ready? What should I wear?

And those conversations are all like logistical conversations. What I’m actually doing is I’m borrowing his executive functioning skills and applying them to my life.

So having someone else who can body double is really important and it’s really helpful. And there’s actually lots of online platforms where they support body doubling. So you can actually do a video web conference type situation and you can clean your bathroom with someone. And their presence alone gives us enough dopamine that we lack as ADHDers to do it.

Claire Britton:

Another really big strategy that I always use is I invite someone over to my house once a week. It sounds like I’m really social, but actually the social pressure of having someone come into my space makes me clean. I will make sure it is beautiful.

So utilising those social motivators, social drivers for our advantage. Things like having timers, writing down instructions, a lot of the strategies that we use and that are evidence-based are kind of externalising. So we know that executive functioning skills are so internal and so cognitive that we want to externalise it. So anything that’s tangible will help us with those processes.

So if you’re someone who consistently forgets their phone, having your phone at the front door or having it in a really obvious place that you’re going to wake up out of your bed and you’re literally going to step on it. You can’t ignore it. It’s right there in front of you.

Task initiation is also something that people have difficulties with. Typically, it’s more of a challenge for autistic people rather than ADHDers. We’re really great at having a thousand ideas all at once. We just then kind of get the dopamine peak at the idea and then it slowly peters out. And that’s why we change hobbies all the time and change ideas all the time.

And in order to kind of maintain our momentum and our dopamine, having someone else come in and hold us accountable is also really helpful.

Habit stacking is where like if every morning, what’s one activity you do without fail? And that might be have breakfast or it might be have a shower. So whatever new habit that you want to have, you stack it on top. So say like, I know that I really want to work out. I’m really motivated to work out. I just can’t do it. I just can’t get there.

So putting the equipment in something that’s really obvious or putting a timer on or sticking it with an activity. So if you have a shower every morning, for example, you do the workout before the shower. You get extra sweaty and then you shower.

So you’re not actually adding another activity to the day. It’s just kind of sticking it to it. And that typically works really, really well.

And again, often that’s just a natural thing we do already, but we’re just not aware that it’s a thing we do until that original habit isn’t there. Maybe we had to go to the airport and we forgot breakfast. So I forgot to take my medicine. I forgot to take my lunchbox and I realised, oh, they’re all actually connected in my brain.

Jane McFadden:

That is so interesting. It’s kind of doing my head in because I’m thinking that’s what we’re teaching our children constantly. And then we say we have to keep prompting, but they don’t have the daily habit ingrained yet.

So in the morning, they don’t actually realise that after breakfast, you brush your teeth, you do your hair, you get your bag. And it’s just reminding, reminding, reminding, prompting, prompting, prompting, because it takes a long time to build that habit.

It’s a really great point you’ve made actually. Because I was thinking, but babies aren’t born with the habits, we have to teach them the habit, but we have somebody that’s 30 to 40% delayed in the habit. So you’re doing it a lot longer, which is why it feels draining.

Claire Britton:

Yes. And that’s why we want to use things like visuals. And people talk about visual schedules being so helpful because it’s getting out of their brain. It’s that decreasing that reliance on working memory.

They should just be able to remember this. They should know that this is just the sequence. They have executive functioning skills. How do we get rid of it? How do we compensate?

Put some pictures of these are the five things you need to do before going to school or before having some TV time. Because they know in the morning, when they wake up, they get TV. That’s all they remember.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Claire Britton:

Because it’s rewarding. It gives them dopamine. They love it. They forget that they have to have breakfast and they forget that they have to look after their own body to survive. That doesn’t give them dopamine. It’s not memorable.

But neurotypicals and other people, they’re like, of course you have to do all these things. Isn’t that just normal practice? Just get on with it.

Jane McFadden:

That’s so funny. I’ve been doing OT strategies on my husband. When he asks me, but what are we doing today? Am I doing pickup? Who’s doing this? He asks me questions. I take him to the visual calendar and I show him where it is because I’m trying to build the habit of going to look at the calendar, not asking me three times a day what to do next.

Because I’m like, it’s on the calendar that you helped me pick, that you said that you would use, that we went over and planned on Sunday. Now you need to use the calendar. And it’s like, I’m using the same strategies because if I keep giving him the answer, he doesn’t look at the calendar.

So now I take him to the calendar, tell him the answer whilst pointing. And he said to me this morning, he’s like, I feel like this is what you do with our children. And I was like, I’m building the habit of you looking at the calendar. Sorry, but that’s what I’m doing.

And he’s like, okay. And I’m hoping he uses that as a deterrent to just walk to the calendar.

Claire Britton:

That’s it. And I think we do that really well as well with text messages.

Jane McFadden:

Oh yes. Good point.

Claire Britton:

You know, like if something as simple as like, are you picking the kids up from school? Send it as a text message. Then I don’t need to ask again. Because I can literally look on my phone and be like, oh yeah, cool. I’m picking up the kids. I completely forgot, but I can go back through my conversations with my husband and actually use that as a visual.

Because I always have my phone on me where something like a tangible calendar, I might not have it on me all the time. Like it’s really helpful to kind of maybe take a photo of it so it’s a bit more accessible potentially.

But don’t you love it how, when you have multiple people in your house, you have to like try and figure out everyone’s individual deficits and positives, you know, and then try to work to everybody’s strengths, but there’s so much planning involved with that.

Jane McFadden:

This is why I think it’s so important for a mom to get diagnosed, possibly medicated if they’re open and get some help, because if they are the key piece in this family and the load is on them, but they’ve only got one admin person who’s old and tired and, you know, doesn’t have a very good computer, as you said earlier, then what hope does that poor person have of doing all of these tasks that are just layering, layering and layering.

And then it’s all very confusing to everybody when that person says I’m burnt out and I can’t get out of bed. Like, how did that happen? Like, well, because of all of the things I’ve been saying, but I suppose, yeah, you’re right. Society says that we should just do them.

So when they go, why are you burnt out? It’s like, just from general life.

Claire Britton:

Yeah. And therefore, because we can’t actually pinpoint what it is, it must just be me. I’m the problem rather than it’s my brain is different to how this world was created and designed. So therefore I can’t seek help because I’m actually really guilty that I need help going to school or getting the kids ready.

That sounds so stupid to say out loud because often I’m sure your experience is as well. Like your husband’s like, what’s wrong? Just tell me what it is. And you’re like, if I say it, it sounds stupid.

I know what I need to do. I know the steps I know, but I’m just so overwhelmed at all of the executive function needs to actually get it done. And I’m lacking the dopamine to get there. You know what I mean?

The second we add novelty to it, or the second we might add a deadline or urgency, wow, that gives us the dopamine hit to do it. The deadline was smashing that assignment out where we got those kids racing out that door. So it’s not that we can’t get the kids out the door, they get there.

But that sense of urgency and that dopamine is genuinely not in our brain.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I love that. One final question. What progress have you seen moms make in this area?

Claire Britton:

I think the biggest one is the decreased mental health challenges that we face. And rather than having those failure moments constantly and feeling like we’re inherently broken or inherently wrong, we’re able to be a lot more self-compassionate. And therefore we’re able to share our strategies because it worked for me. But in order to share a strategy, I have to acknowledge it was a challenge in the first place.

And so we’re starting to acknowledge challenges now in society. And that’s why we’re heading slowly towards strategies. But ultimately, when we feel like we can’t do the bare minimum, we internalise that guilt, we internalise that shame, we don’t ask for help.

And that then results in a lot of reliance on the mental health system and antidepressants. The amount of people that I talk to that are on antidepressants, but then wouldn’t take ADHD medication. And it’s really interesting about the biases that we have and the ableism that we have internalised of should be able to just do it.

So to be able to have space and hopefully places like this podcast, like elicit so many aha moments. And I feel like that’s also been the beauty of being diagnosed and sharing your story, sharing your challenges is realising, oh my goodness, you too? That then creates a space where you feel safe, where you feel regulated, where it’s normalised and it’s valued.

And therefore the impact that has on your mental health is so significant because you’re not alone, you’re not isolated and there are supports for you that gives you hope. And if you’ve got hope, suddenly everything is possible. And that’s not to make everything all fluffy and rainbows and unicorns, it’s to say you’re not stuck.

And unfortunately, a lot of the time, by the time people access services, they’re in crisis. I’ve got nothing else to lose. If you tell me I’m a bad mom, I’m ready because I’m already there.

So I don’t care what this health professional is going to tell me because I already think the worst of me or my children or what’s going on. I’ve tried everything, nothing’s working. You get stuck in this almost helplessness cycle.

And so by understanding your executive functioning differences, you can provide strategies, you’re decreasing the load cognitively, you’re caring, you’re able to ask for help, you’re able to feel heard. All of a sudden you have so much more cognitive space to do the things you want to do.

To get the dopamine from the activities and the hobbies that some people seem to have all this time for that you can’t even understand how they’re reading a book. You’d love to read a book, you’ve got a bookcase full of books, but you can’t actually read because you’re spending so much time in your mind just doing so much planning and thinking and critiquing. So alleviating that cannot be underestimated. It is so, so powerful.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, absolutely. And a psychologist I’ve known for a long time, he works really closely with us. He said to me, he goes, Jane, ADHD and perfectionism, he’s like, which you are very heavy on both of those. He’s like, it’s the recipe for insanity. You can’t keep up with all of the things that you think you should be doing.

I was trying to figure out how I could do more of my list. And he’s like, put less on there. And it was like completely mind blown by that. What do you mean if I have an idea that could improve my life? I don’t put it on the list and action it immediately?

And he’s like, that’s part of the problem. But when you’re continuing to put that pressure on yourself, I love the way you said that. And it’s like giving yourself permission to put less on the list, to not have everything done, to maybe, you know, not do all the things that you think you should be doing.

Because those strategies that you’re talking about by sharing, I personally cannot think of those strategies by myself. And a lot of people will say to me in the community, thank you so much for doing the episodes. And I love to hear that. That’s beautiful.

But I always respond and say, do you know how much I’ve gotten out of the community and all of the people that have come on? I only ask what I’m interested in hearing. And I’ve had such a positive change from taking medication, but also from then being able to actually do some of the strategies that people talk about that I would never have thought of.

So I think that is so important because, yeah, I think medication, if you can get one that works and you can afford to get diagnosed these days and have all the appointments. For me, I think it’s better to do the strategies at the same time.

I was struggling to do any strategies without medication. I just was like, that gap is too wide. I can’t do that. People would say to me, why don’t you get your phone and then get your calendar? And then when the Seesaw app pings, put it into your calendar. I couldn’t do that unmedicated. That was hard. I couldn’t do it.

Now, medicated, I can do that. And that’s been really a big change for me. And I can actually have the foresight to write down library day is Thursday on a whiteboard and it stays there. I could not do that a year ago.

Claire Britton:

Were you aware a year ago that that was a challenge?

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. So when I started my journey, my husband’s a PT and he was very much of the opinion that we shouldn’t medicate. You don’t need to take medication. We will solve this with health and exercise and fitness and good food and supplements.

And we did that for a year and I can tell you that that did not work. And he knew it didn’t work either. And it was really great for us to experience that that did not work for me.

I’m not sure really how I feel about like severity of ADHD or people very severe and only a little bit. I think you have it or you don’t. But what I would say is that my daily life was significantly severely impacted.

So the gap for me was too big and I didn’t feel like health and fitness and good food and wellbeing and all of the things I was doing and meditating and supplements was enough for me personally to bridge that gap. I could not do that.

And it was only when I had a chat with my husband and we were like, this is still not working. And that was when we, I love stimulants because it’s not a big deal for me to try a stimulant. I personally would prefer to do a stimulant, take it for a day, two days, three days, didn’t work, finish.

For me taking an antidepressant with a 12-week trial and then you’ve got to kind of come off it, that feels like a big ask. But for me, a stimulant personally, I’m like, I tried all the different stimulants and I was happy to do that. Would I have tried three or four different antidepressants? Probably not, because that would have taken two years.

So the bridge for me had to be, I had to be medicated and I am very passionate about trying medications. I’m really passionate about being persistent with it because it does cost a lot of money, but I had to try four at least before I got the one that worked. And that was very expensive, time consuming.

And if I hadn’t have persisted with it, I would not have found something that’s been life changing for me. So sorry for a bit of a long, I’m very passionate about finding the right med if you can. I know some people can’t.

Claire Britton:

Yeah, no, I think that’s really important. And that’s why there’s so many people that are very black and white about it. Either they say that they love it and it changed their life or they absolutely hated it.

And sometimes it is, it’s just a comparison of time and ability to persist. Yeah. And I mean, you know, some people, they are non-stimulant people, you know, the stimulants don’t work. They have to go to a non-stimulant or, you know, they’ve got heart concerns and it can be really complex.

For me, I was so happy that I persisted because I’m not sure how I’d be going right now, just with the big gap that I have on executive function. And I still have a really large gap medicated. So there is still a lot of really simple things that I struggle with.

For example, reading a homework task for a child. So when they send out the homework and say, this is when you have to return it. Oh, I find it so difficult. And that’s medicated. Even then I’m not getting it right. Even then I’m all over the place.

And the teacher, I actually say to the teacher in the beginning now, just to let you know, I’m super open to feedback. Please follow me up. Please explain it to me. And I now know that when they send it home, I have to go into the teacher for five minutes, get them to show me the book, show me what happens because otherwise I’m like, but what folder, which folder, there’s three, what book? I don’t know what instructions, what day? I don’t know.

And then I don’t do anything and that’s medicated. So I don’t know where I would be, or actually I do know where I would be because that was when I had one child in there and she never had the right uniform or any of the things. The entire year, I didn’t even know how to log in to Seesaw.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Claire Britton:

And it’s so common and yet no one shares. And I think that’s what’s so beautiful about your podcast is hearing, oh my gosh, I just kind of ignore everything. And then I know it’s going to blow up, but at least then I had a bit more sense of control because I intentionally didn’t get the, you know, Seesaw.

I didn’t intentionally get it because I knew I was going to stuff it up anyway. So at least then I can blame it on IT.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. But you know what though, that school mum vibe, and a lot of people will say negative things about, you know, the mum crowd and how it can be a bit judgy. I personally didn’t find it, although in saying that sometimes things go over my head. So it might’ve been judgy.

People will probably judge me. I wouldn’t have known or cared to be honest. But when I was comparing myself against other mums, it was very clear to me that there was something not right.

And it was only in that first prep year that I actually realised that I was not a little bit behind or on a different page. I was in a different book on a different bookshelf, far, far, far away from all of the people that were there. And they were really nice people. I’m still friends with them, but it was really clear to me that there was something that was not the same. And that was really positive for me to seek help.

Claire Britton:

Yeah. And I think what you’re touching on there too is really great. And that also, I think it’s only been since 2018. There’s an autistic researcher called Dr. Damien Milton, and he researched social interactions with different neurodivergent people.

And he was able to identify that people of the same neurotype understand each other. They like find each other. And so sometimes what happens in schools is we feel overwhelmed, we feel quite isolated, but then as adults, all our friends have the same challenges.

So it’s fun, right? Like everyone was late. Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. Or like everyone forgot nappies or everyone forgot the co-curricular activity was on today. That’s so funny. Like, oh, I told her, you remind me, can I remind you?

Because we both have challenges with prioritising and things like that. But therefore in that normalising, in those finding those social circles, often what then happens is someone in that group does have, you know, challenges with their mental health or goes and gets a diagnosis and, oh, well, if they’re, you know, ADHD, then I guess that kind of explains me too. Okay, great. I didn’t realise that that’s what this was.

And rather than coming at it from a point of I have a disability, now I’m trying to wrap my head around how I see myself. It’s like, I was just naturally compensating until I couldn’t anymore. And now I get the help that I need. And that’s great.

It alleviates so much of that guilt and that shame. You know, I need medication. People need medications for certain allergies. We don’t then hold that to them and say, well, you’re an asthmatic. You’re relying on a puffer. You just kind of get on with it.

And like, it shouldn’t really be that way with… Could you imagine if like someone says they had a peanut allergy and then you’re like, yeah, but not really. Here’s a peanut. Why don’t you just eat it? Because I don’t think it’s real.

Jane McFadden:

Could you imagine?

Claire Britton:

Yeah, exactly. And it would literally be like, it would be considered neglectful. It would be like, people have to be at your door because here you are leaving peanut butter all over their face because you don’t believe in it.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, bring your kid over and they’re like, oh, they’ve got a peanut allergy. I don’t believe in allergies. I’ll give them some peanuts. It’ll be fine. It’s just bad parenting.

Claire Britton:

Obviously you believe in allergies.

Jane McFadden:

I don’t.

Claire Britton:

Yeah. It’s almost a privilege to be able to think like that. Do you know what I mean? Because it means that they haven’t seen how detrimental the impact can be. Do you know what I mean? Maybe they’ve only experienced people that may spoke out in high. So they’re like, it’s actually no big deal.

And so their experience and their point of reference, they’re right. It isn’t a big deal. But for people who genuinely have full anaphylaxis, for people who genuinely experience massive gaps in their executive functioning, this is life-changing.

So to be told, oh, it’s not a big deal. Just get on with it. Just do the thing. Just hurry up already. What if they could? I could get to a point where we’re adults.

Jane McFadden:

You’re right though, because if someone came to my house and said, do you have a cat? Because I’m highly allergic to cats. And then imagine if they came over and I opened the door and I was like, oh yeah, I sneezed. I’ve got an allergy to cats too, but I’m not allergic to this cat because I stayed once a few years ago and then it was fine.

And then the person walks in and immediately goes into like, can’t breathe. They’re like sneezing. They’re all over the place. You don’t have an antihistamine because you don’t believe it. And then you’re like, well, oh, I didn’t realise it was a real thing.

And you’re right. It’s like, oh, I forgot something one time. I have a little bit of ADHD. It’s so minimising to the people that do have anaphylactic ADHD, or it severely impacts their life.

And with that, I think we should finish, because I just want to talk to you forever. I think we should reschedule another one in Claire. Thank you so much for your time. I’ve really, really appreciated it. And I would love to get you back again.

Claire Britton:

No, I’d love to be back. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you for having the podcast and the amazing work that it’s doing for the greater community.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, thank you, Claire. The key message here is you are not alone.

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