Episode 38 – My Diagnosis Journey with Jasmine Meek (Part 2)

Jane McFadden:

Hello and welcome to the next episode of ADHD Mums. We have part two with Jasmine Meek. Now, the first episode that we put out, we put at the end, who would like to hear more of Jasmine’s journey? We got a majority yes, so here we are back again with Jasmine.

If you are unfamiliar, Jasmine is a mum of two living in Brisbane Bayside, a part-time psychology student and a postpartum doula. Jasmine was drawn to work with new mothers because of her own experience with the postpartum period, which was less than ideal. She has also struggled with many aspects of motherhood and wishes to help other mums be more supported and thrive in the postpartum period.

Jasmine only recently discovered that she may have ADHD, and knowing the symptoms of ADHD, even without a diagnosis, is already helping her to understand herself, her own mothering, and how she is able to successfully start a business, secure clients, and build a following online with ease — but then also struggled to tidy her own kitchen bench. Which is, it’s the simple things that get us, isn’t it, Jasmine? It’s the most frustrating.

Jasmine Meek:

Yes, it is.

Jane McFadden:

And it’s the simple Kmart clock, you know, the yellow and blue clock that I posted about. I bought it online, can’t put it together. I reckon a small child could put that together. And you know, my husband, who doesn’t have ADHD, also has left it there. It’s not like he can do it, don’t get me wrong, but just getting started on doing it.

So it’s like the most simple thing that will enable us to keep all of our children in bed, hopefully — touch wood — till 6am, and we’re just not actioning it. Yeah. So it’s always those things that get us, yet we work at a fairly high level, but it’s the little things.

So welcome back, Jasmine.

Jasmine Meek:

Thanks so much for having me.

Jane McFadden:

Awesome. So we’re going to do a very tiny recap. Part one, you can always go back and have a listen to. What part one was about was the lead-up to an appointment.

So Jasmine had, I thought it was a funny story — she was on Instagram and she kept getting all these ADHD algorithms, and she posted and said, I’m getting all these algorithms, you know, I might have ADHD, ha ha. And someone actually commented and said, Or you might just have ADHD, which sparked off some of this journey that we’re going to get to.

The first episode is all about the lead-up to Jasmine’s diagnosis appointment. The lead-up to why she thought she had the symptoms, how to prepare for an appointment. And we went over some of the things that can trip up some of the ADHD mums, like camouflaging, prompting, or calendars, systems, structures.

What have you set up over the last 30–40 years to, I suppose, help you live your life more effectively or mask the symptoms? So you look like you’re always on time, but you’ve only got 17 alarm systems, you know, a high level of anxiety, and some of the gaslighting that can happen when you talk to other people about it. So that is all in the first episode.

What we are going to get to now is Jasmine has had the appointment yesterday. So Jasmine, do you want to give us a bit of a rundown on — this sounds really silly, but it is important — like time of day, how you were feeling in the lead-up, how long it took you to get there, what was your mood like, how did it look before you arrived and when you arrived to this appointment?

Jasmine Meek:

So my appointment had to be rescheduled. I was really lucky that I only had to wait an initial about two months for my appointment date, but a week before it was meant to happen, my very elderly Nana passed away and I had to go to Sydney for her funeral.

It was on the date of my appointment. My Nana was 95, so it was expected and we were waiting for it. And so I probably was a little bit more upset about my appointment getting missed than I was about my poor Nana dying.

But I honestly thought, imagine if I had been waiting six months for this appointment, like so many women I hear about. I just couldn’t imagine having to cancel. Anyway, I got lucky again. I just had to wait another month.

So I finally had my appointment yesterday. I was really nervous. I have been so overly conscious of all of my ADHD symptoms since realizing I may have it, and that has kind of intensified it. So it’s like now I’m doing the same things, but I am aware of them, and then kind of either I’m berating myself or feeling sorry for myself straight after.

So even just deciding to leave, I had to drop something to my husband on the way to the appointment. And so therefore I had to leave one hour early. Now it was only a seven-minute drive to my husband’s work and then another 10 minutes to the psychiatrist’s office.

But I couldn’t pop that into Google Maps. It’s like that part of my brain that’s like, Ooh, you don’t know how to do this, so just leave an hour early. So I did. And so it’s that whole thing of you’re either an hour early or you’re late. And so as I’m driving on, I’m kind of—

Jane McFadden:

Can I ask you a quick question? Sorry, Jasmine, you know I interrupt with lots of questions because I’ve got burning ones already, but we will get to it.

I was just wondering with that lack of ability to, you know, how you had left an extra hour early knowing that you definitely didn’t need that much time — is it a working memory issue in that you can’t put the addresses in and flick between Safari and Maps and messages to figure out where you’ve got to be and then remember the steps in your mind?

Right? And you almost need three phones to be able to coordinate that? Or is it like a spatial thing? ’Cause I suffer from this too.

So I’m actually just interested because that is like, I feel like — I hate using the I word — but I do feel a bit like an idiot when I can’t do simple tasks like that.

Jasmine Meek:

For me, it’s — I don’t know the name for it — but I’ve been listening to a book by Gabor Maté called Scattered Minds, and it’s all on ADD. And he mentioned in one little bit, he talked about it’s almost as if people with ADHD believe in magic.

And I laughed so much when I heard that. And when I mentioned it to my mum, who has undiagnosed ADHD, she laughed so much too. So that’s why I’m usually late — because I just believe in magic, that everything is 15 minutes’ drive away.

And that weird little part of my brain that can’t just acknowledge that there is a thing called distance and time and that you can check it — it just can’t acknowledge that. It just thinks that, I don’t know… it’s like I’m living in a different world to everybody else. And it just stops me from actually checking.

So I have made multiple appointments in the past where I have just assumed it is a 15-minute drive between those two places. Like I have no concept. Yeah.

I don’t have any spatial awareness. I don’t know how to get places by memory. I always have to use Maps. And I couldn’t, like I can’t remember.

I may have lived in one suburb and moved to another suburb, but for the life of me, I don’t know how long it takes to drive between those suburbs. And I tend to just assume everything must be about 15 minutes away.

I’ve made appointments and then got in the car, popped it into Maps and gone, Oh, that’s actually a 30-minute drive.

So it’s the inability for me to — like, I can know things intellectually about planning, but I can’t implement them. Something stops me from implementing them. And I think it’s this strange… I don’t know.

It’s hard to put my finger on it, except for when I heard that whole “believing in magic,” like you’ll just magically get there on time. For me yesterday, it was like in reverse. It was just, You have to get there on time, and you know yourself. So just leave an hour early.

Don’t even look at the Maps because then you’ll know. Then it’ll tell you the real time, and that won’t be your real time. That won’t be what… you won’t achieve that. Just leave an hour early.

And yeah, it’s like a full lack of trust in myself, in my ability to map something out spatially and time-wise.

Jane McFadden:

I just find it so interesting how a lot of us have got the same symptoms, but the thought pattern behind it is slightly different.

Because were you the person that said to me that you and your husband will both say, Oh, we’ve got one car and I need to go here, and then he needs to go there, and you both tell each other but then won’t know it’s Thursday? Was that… that was you, wasn’t it?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. Like there’s two parts — there’s four different parts of my brain and they don’t connect.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. So in all honesty, I was actually having lunch with my husband about 20 minutes ago. And he said to me, Can you just put that food in your mouth? Like I was just standing there playing with it.

And then I said, Oh, I’ve got to go to the toilet first. And I walked off, then I came back, it was cold. He’s like, You should reheat that. And then at some point I looked at the clock and went, Oh my God, I’ve got to interview Jasmine in like 10 minutes.

And he’s like, I know, you told me that this morning. And I said to him, It was like I didn’t know it was today, but I did know it was today because I told you it was today. Because — and I said — I’m completely shocked and surprised. It’s one o’clock, I’ve got to move.

And he’s like, But you told me that, how do you not know you knew it was on? And I’m like, I just forgot that it was on. And he’s like, But it’s a confusing thing.

I suppose it’s your brain, it’s confusing. But I always think about that scenario where you said that you’ll both check with each other about the car use, but then you won’t know what day it is physically. Like it’s a different way.

Anyway, look, we should — I digress. You’re getting there. You arrived.

I assume you made it on time because you were freakishly early by the sound of it.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. It allowed me to not be able to find the right car park.

It was this huge centre and it was weird. And I blame the signage. Like it felt like they took away… they had parking one, two, three, and four this way.

And then from that point, parking four — which I needed to find — was not mentioned. And I felt like there was a conspiracy. Like, Have they done this to confuse the people heading to the psychiatrist? Just to really like weed out the ones that really are legit?

It was very funny. So I had plenty of time to do a couple of laps, found the park, got in there very anxious, walked in.

The psychiatrist was a woman. She’s very approachable, very nice. Asked me, Did you have any trouble finding the place? I was like, Of course I did, but all good.

And then she asked, What was I here for? What’s my motivation? And so I said, I want the diagnosis.

Jane McFadden:

So the receptionist asked you that?

Jasmine Meek:

No, this is the psychiatrist straight in.

Jane McFadden:

I was going to say, holy shit. Why did the receptionist ask you that? Sorry. Why are you here? Sorry, I was like so confused. So this was the female psychiatrist.

Did she do any rapport building or did she just go—?

Jasmine Meek:

Oh, she did.

Jane McFadden:

Okay, so you did a few niceties. Hello, how are you, how was the weather, how was your drive?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. Really just — she pulled herself up to say, Did you have trouble finding this place? It was almost like she kind of went, Oh, that’s right, I’m with an ADHD patient, I’ve got to ask this question. That’s what it felt like.

And then straight into like, What are you here for? What are your motivations for this appointment?

And I said, I want a diagnosis first and foremost as a validation for everything that I’m going through. But I would also really like to be able to try medication. I need life to be easier. I need my brain to function the way apparently other people’s do.

And so that kind of set the tone for the appointment because she had already looked through my forms. And so straight away, she said, We are going to have a hard time getting you an official diagnosis because of the lack of symptoms that you remember, and that your mother remembers, from your childhood.

And she then noted from my form, she said, I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many of the symptoms ticked in someone who didn’t have anything obvious in childhood.

So my forms — the way my life has gone is I tick every single box for inattention right now in adulthood. But in childhood, I can’t remember, my mum can’t remember, and we don’t have any report cards or anything. So there’s nothing there that we know, that we can remember, that shows inattention in those primary school years.

So the whole appointment was spent with her trying to tease that out.

Jane McFadden:

So let’s back up one second. Sorry, Jasmine, I’ve got so many questions.

So did you have to write down like childhood symptoms, or did you have to write them down? Or was she looking for proof? Was she… she wanted to see like a report? Or did you just not put any symptoms as a kid?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. Right. So this is what I definitely established early on. Memory would have been fine. So if I had remembered being in trouble all the time for talking too much, for example, that would have been enough for her. She wasn’t looking for evidence. She just wanted to know.

So if I had been able to remember something—

Jane McFadden:

She just wanted you to like tick a box.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. So there’s obviously in the DSM, which is the diagnostic criteria, there’s clearly a childhood tick that you have to have ticked.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Jasmine Meek:

To then create a diagnosis.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, you have to have several.

Jasmine Meek:

And I wasn’t ticking that box and she probably can’t legally do it.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah. So this is what I established.

So I went in with the assumption based on what I’d heard, that symptoms evident in childhood — from what you can remember, or that you have evidence of from teacher reports or anything like that — my understanding was that that will help towards a diagnosis.

I didn’t realize, and now I know, it’s actually vital for a diagnosis. So in order to have a diagnosis, you must have several — so three, I guess — or more DSM criteria.

The hard part is, the DSM doesn’t capture a lot of the nuanced stuff that we talk about — the things that are associated with ADHD, the way people are starting to understand that girls with ADHD think and operate.

So the DSM is quite clear-cut. And if you can’t at least remember three of those points from your childhood, then you cannot be diagnosed and you cannot have stimulant medication.

Jane McFadden:

Okay, so for all the listeners out there who are thinking, What is a DSM and what are these women talking about? The DSM is a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. So basically, it’s how they diagnose.

When you do those really weird questions — the DAS21, a lot of them have done that — that’s the depression and stress disorder, called the DAS21. You might do a K10, which is again about anxiety, depression, stress.

So basically to hit clinical depression, you need to hit a certain amount of those criteria to fulfil it.

The reason being is because they need to create some kind of structure around this, right? Because otherwise, especially with ADHD, if you get someone that just goes, Yeah, I feel like she’s got it, and it’s like they’re not following anything, it would just be horrendous, right? You’d just be trusting people blind.

So of course, they need to create a structure. It’s the same with medical stuff. You can’t just hand out things or diagnose things. It has to be tested.

The problem with it is that the wording has to be so bang-on to get everybody. And in the past, it has been definitely skewed towards the eight-year-old boy, right?

So we are looking at some of it, in my opinion, of the criteria for the kids that are under 16. So I think they like to have six or more symptoms when you’re under 16.

So for a female, they might not be able to identify. Reason being is because they might not have the memory. It might be kind of wiped out. They might think that’s normal depending on the school that they went to as well. Their parents might tell them that they were fabulous, the teachers were wrong.

They might have issues with authority. Like you have no idea. People remember different stuff. I honestly believe that.

If I catch up with my friends from primary school, we disagree on who was a good teacher and who was a fun person and who wasn’t. We disagree all the time. It was like 30 years ago.

So if you’re creating symptoms that are often picked up in boys, like disruptive, then you’re asking women to remember 30 years ago and whether they were told they were too chatty. I have a real problem with that just to start with.

Sorry, I feel like I’m going to rant this episode. This is getting bad.

So I can understand why you think of the symptoms. And then I suppose, so you obviously sounded like you were quite honest in your form, in your questionnaire that you sent in. And then it sounds like she was trying to get you to say something so she could tick you off, because she’s looking at the symptoms going, I’m pretty sure she has ADHD, yet I can’t prescribe or diagnose until I get my pen in this box, which is a childhood symptom box. Is that correct?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Did you think, I might just say I was a bit chatty, I might say I got into trouble? Were you honestly thinking, I’m going to be so honest because I need to know if I really have this or not? Like where was your head at?

Jasmine Meek:

I think my head was at — I guess because I hadn’t prepared for that piece of information about how it must be present. My understanding was that it would help.

And I thought, given I ticked every single box and that it is impairing my functioning now, I thought that would be enough.

I also think I thought she was going to work some magic. I thought she was going to ask questions that hadn’t been in the forms, that I hadn’t thought of, that would make me go, Oh yeah, well yeah, it was like that.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, so you thought the psychiatrist might be able to problem-solve or be creative, which was complete— they are the least problem-solving person I have ever met.

Honestly, you give them a problem — I said to one of them yesterday, because I ran out of meds and the psychiatrist was away. It was a complete, it was a fuck-up honestly, on their end. Where’s the reminders or anything?

Anyway, I’d run out of medication. Then they give me some telehealth guy to wait 10 days. So I’m like unmedicated. And anyway, then they give me this guy, and I’m thinking, Surely he’s better than my usual dude.

And he gets on and I thought, Oh no, I don’t think he’s going to be. And then he starts asking me some questions. I really just wanted the script, to be honest. But then he actually was asking me a few more questions than the other guy.

And I thought, Oh, look, I’ll give this guy a go. Maybe he looks so deceptive, he might be all right.

And he said to me, Oh, how are your symptoms of anxiety? And I said, Well, not very good. And he goes, Oh, you seem suicidal. Are you suicidal? And I said, Well, I’ve got PMS, but I think that’s pretty standard.

Wow. Then he’s like… he was all over the place. And then I ended up saying to him, I do think— and he goes, Oh, so you do have severe anxiety then?

I said, Well, I didn’t think I had anxiety until I went on medication and I knew what it felt like to not have anxiety. I wouldn’t say the anxiety’s solved, because I’m aware now that this is actually very uncomfortable.

Anyway, he goes to me, Can you explain to me the anxiety? And I said, Stressed, can’t sit down, impatient, agitated, going over and over a to-do list, can’t be present, can’t sit down with my kids, snap at my husband, road rage. I just started listing it off.

And he looked so overwhelmed. Wow. And then he goes, It’s probably just ADHD.

It’s like, Thanks, genius. I was so pissed off with him. Why ask me questions if you don’t know anything? Because I said to him, Maybe I should try some anti-anxiety.

He goes, Oh, I don’t know. Anyway, I feel like I’m going to fuck it up. Anyway, so back to you.

Now, I did have a quick look here. It says to me on Google that not all ADHD adults have symptoms in childhood. So check those apples out. That’s a great start.

The other thing is as well, there’s two categories here. So you’ve got inattention — six symptoms you’ve got to have. So you’ve got to have: sustaining attention (which you might not realise), listening, following instructions, organising tasks, reluctant to engage in tasks, loses things, distracted, forgetful.

That’s the inattention ones — which, remember, ADHD in women don’t always present with because they get anxiety and become perfectionists. So they mask over the top of it.

So that’s actually — like, I don’t think I did many of them if I’m honest. But I also functioned with incredibly high anxiety.

And then there’s hyperactivity, which is six or more symptoms, which is just basically an eight-year-old boy: can’t sit still, runs around, climbs, unable to play or engage quietly, is on the go, talks a lot, blurts out answers.

They really should change that DSM because I can see why you got tripped up, especially if you were being honest.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

So the psychiatrist, Bev, we’re calling it, she said she truly believes that it is a spectrum like ASD, like autism spectrum disorder. She believes ADHD is on a spectrum. And she said she believes that you just sit somewhere on the spectrum where childhood was fine, and that with each additional — and this was my theory already prior — with each additional responsibility in life, your executive function suffered more and more and more.

So I know that my anxiety really peaked as soon as I kind of moved out of home. So that was when I stopped being completely taken care of.

Jasmine Meek:

So unfortunately that was at 17, you know, not 12. So it was really tricky because she was trying, she said, Did your parents do everything for you? Is that why you never lost your hat? You never— like, I have no recollection of like always losing my hat.

And I said to her, Well, we didn’t have much money. And so my mum couldn’t afford the school-branded hat. So I had the $4 hat from the chemist. So it looked different to every single other child at school. I was like, so nah, I didn’t lose it. I don’t think I could have. Everyone would have known that’s Jasmine’s hat.

And she said, Look, did your mum take care of everything for you? And at first I was like, Well, maybe, because she was pretty much only a stay-at-home mum in primary school. But she did have undiagnosed ADHD.

And so then the psychiatrist was like, Well, it’s pretty unlikely that she was doing everything for you. And then when I talked about high school and how my mum would always like make us late for school.

And so I was, by that point in high school, I probably would have been — I was already well and truly the kind of perfectionist. So I was waiting at the door for mum, saying, Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

So then the psychiatrist is kind of like, Oh yeah, well, there’s no way you could have got yourself ready just for school in high school if you were being completely taken care of in primary school. Like by that point you would have started to drop the ball.

And so it was tricky. And I went in thinking that that wasn’t a deal-breaker. And I also went in thinking that she would have some magic questions that really got to the bottom of it. And then that didn’t happen.

But yeah, she believes it’s on a spectrum. It’s tricky.

Jane McFadden:

I’m starting to wonder… what I feel like with you, Jasmine, to be honest, because the first episode where we went through, we went through your childhood. You talked a lot about going from high school to uni and about your upbringing, you know, your mum and the undiagnosed ADHD that she has or had.

It feels to me like you have a lot of masking. This is just my personal opinion from interviewing you. Like, you know, this is personal opinion, because when I look at these symptoms that you haven’t ticked in childhood, I’ll level with you — I wouldn’t tick them either.

I didn’t lose my hat because my mum would charge me $30 every time I lost it. So I was overzealous, over-worried, overly anxious, over-perfectionistic. I had a high amount of pressure from my parents to be perfect, to be the best.

So yeah, I look back and I think, yeah, I didn’t display any of those symptoms pretty much. However, I was also smart. So I could have been looking out the window three-quarters of the time. I still would have been able to put it together.

I remember it being boring. School was boring for me, especially in primary school. I remember thinking, How could we like fast-track this? I’m so bored. I remember just getting everything quickly.

Some people who are quite clever and quite conscientious can get through. They’re not detected. They’re not behind.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And behind the scenes, they’re actually stressed. Their little internal psychological system is running strong to keep them ahead. There’s society pressure that you need to be up there with the best. You might be getting pressure from your parents, from yourself. Then it creates internal pressure.

You have got perfectionistic traits with ADHD. So all that means is that you try harder. Even with my own psychologist, I struggled to get a lot of those symptoms through. We had to unpack it, tease it out — which is what you’re referring to — except he knew me. He knew me for two years. So it was easy.

So I can see how you’ve ended up with this result because — and again, so I’m getting a bit amped up — is because I’m looking at it on my phone, the symptoms you’re supposed to have had, and I’m like, well, I don’t have any of those. And let me tell you, the ADHD medication works textbook for me and it’s been life-changing.

So the DSM for me has to bloody change.

Jasmine Meek:

I completely agree. And I also think the problem is just because stimulants have street value. And that’s pretty much what my psychiatrist alluded to — that because it has street value, they have to tick more boxes in order to prescribe it.

So if you go to your GP and say, I’m depressed, you don’t have to prove depression. You don’t have to prove how long it’s gone for. You don’t have to have clinical depression to get antidepressants. You can say, I’m anxious, and you can get 10 milligrams of citalopram on the spot.

So this is what I’m really struggling with now. And I came home in tears yesterday because I thought, so I have what they can see as executive function issues — that’s clear. But I can’t get the drug that helps with executive functioning because I didn’t have symptoms that impacted my childhood, impacted my life in childhood. So it works a really different way to the other kind of disorders. And that’s really hard to stomach.

So I have kind of no choice now — well, I’ve got a couple of choices now — but I think I’m going to have to go back to the GP and ask to go back on an SSRI, an antidepressant or an anti-anxiety medication, because I can’t cope otherwise. I’m not coping.

Jane McFadden:

No, Jasmine. Oh, this is just — this is killing me. I wish we weren’t being recorded because it’s really… Jasmine, this is — no, okay. This is what is wrong with the whole system.

Because we’re pushing the symptoms out, right? For ADHD mums. I don’t do this for any kind of money or profit or… like, I don’t even want people to know who I am. I’ve got no interest, none, none at all.

I mean, I only do the Instagram stories because the social media lady said to me, People want to get to know you more. This is about building awareness. What I’m interested in is throwing out the symptoms.

So women and mums keep trying because often they get told no. And then this is how people end up getting misdiagnosed. And then in two or three years’ time, you’ll come back around and I’ll see you somewhere. And I’ll go, How are you going? And you’ll go, Terrible, I feel like shit. Everything’s gotten worse. I’m being a terrible mother because I’m so unhappy.

Right? And it’s like the answer’s there and you went to get it and you got turned away.

Yeah. I’m so sorry. This just fucking griped me, hey.

Jasmine Meek:

It was. And you know what? It’s a 50-minute appointment and the answer was already on the table from the start. So I did try and talk to her a little bit about one of the biggest reasons I kind of wanted medication at the end is for the home life, for the mothering. But she already knew that from my forms. Like she said, Yeah, I know. I read that you sometimes forget to feed your kids food.

But when I got home and I of course burst into tears to my mum and was saying like the real hard truth of what my mothering looks like right now, my mum said, Did you say this to her?

I said, Well, I said the more kind of gentle stuff, like how I’m never fully present with my kids. So they don’t get a fully present mum. They don’t get someone who is willing to sit down and play, able to sit down and play cars, because that’s too boring for me. And I’m looking at all the things I need to do around the house.

So I told the psychiatrist that, but again, it didn’t make any difference. So there was no point in going further.

But the further stuff is like — two nights ago or something — I was screaming at my kids because I have this, what I now know to be a lack of impulse control when I am overstimulated. And literally, a friend drove my husband home from their place, and I didn’t know that. I thought he was getting a cab.

So I’m being my kind of like crazy self, just getting irate with the kids and irate with the dog and, you know, just being mean. And then I hear noises and I hear a voice that is my husband’s and I was like, Oh my God, someone’s witnessed this. Oh my God, someone’s just heard me.

And I was mortified. And thank God I opened the front door and thank God it was a very close friend. And I just grabbed her and I was like, Oh my God, thank God you’re here. Like please help.

And the kids all kind of ran in and were being crazy. And I just looked at her and she just saw the absolute sheer desperation in my eyes. And it’s like that — I don’t think that would have made a difference to a psychiatrist. But that’s what really breaks my heart.

Because yeah, you’re right, like an antidepressant, it might take the edge off, but it’s not fixing the actual problem, which is all of the inattention, the impulse control, the overstimulation.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, the racing thoughts, the anxiety, the huge heavy metal that you’ve probably got going in your brain. Yeah. And I think this is why it shits me.

Because, you know, I posted on Instagram about I’ve possibly, apparently got this heart condition. Anyway, so I went off medication. Well, I firstly had a breakdown in the hour and a half back from Brisbane because I realized it would affect my ADHD medication. I went off it the next day.

And my husband said to me — he’s like, You can’t come off it. And he was the person — this is, don’t get me wrong, this is my hubby who owned a gym for 15 years, he doesn’t take Panadol, he doesn’t drink, like he’s a professional bodybuilder man, like he’s a freak on health. And this is the man who said to me, I don’t think you should try medication. Let’s do all the lifestyle stuff first.

Did that, didn’t help. We did all the counselling, we did all the changes. And then, and you know, my psychologist said to me, I think you’re kind of severe. Let’s just at least try something.

And now, as soon as I stopped taking medication, the man that said to me, I don’t want you to take medication, I don’t want you to take it every day, is saying to me, Jane, you need to be medicated.

So because it’s a different — and because it’s such a quick thing, it’s not an SSRI where you have to take it months to build up, this huge thing, you get all these side effects. You either know it works or it doesn’t.

So to not take it one day, when hubby’s had two months with me being on the right dosage of Vyvanse, he’s like, Who the fuck is this woman? Because I was irate, angry, irritated, pissed off. And I was like, I’m being a shit wife and a shit mother.

And I didn’t even know how bad it was until I got out of it and then went back in. So it’s got a huge impact on us as women, our families, and our kids. Really fucks me off. This is going to be a really explicit episode.

Jane McFadden:

Jasmine, I want you to go back. What happened at the end? Did she say, You can come back if you think of some symptoms?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. I am going to call my primary school and see if they have archived — on one of the ADHD Facebook groups, people said that their primary school had archived report cards.

The psychiatrist did say, Look, do that. But they’re probably going to say, Very bright, a pleasure to have in the classroom. I talked to Mum about like, Okay, which one of my primary school teachers is still alive and would remember me? And we did think of one person who I thought, Oh yeah, I wasn’t his favourite, so maybe he gives a different idea.

Because, you know, my mum is like, You were fantastic. Like, I don’t want to think of all the bad things. I’m like, Think of the bad things, Mum.

She did. So the psychiatrist did say — she first said, Yeah, you go to an executive functioning coach. And there’s apparently a good one in Brisbane.

Look, who knows how much that would cost? And I really… look, if it was affordable, I’d be willing to try it. But my problem — and I explained to her — my problem isn’t not knowing the tools to use. Like, you know, I know there are lists, I know there are reminders, I know.

But when it comes to implementing them — like an example I gave her, you know how some people do, they say, Okay, you draw a square, it’s a grid of four boxes, and you have urgent, non-urgent, important, unimportant. And then you place all of your to-dos in those categories.

I have a genuine struggle with deciding what is important, unimportant, urgent, and non-urgent. Like, the washing needs to be done. I don’t know. Is that urgent? It feels urgent to me. Other people might not categorise that as urgent.

I might have washing next to doing something that’s on the computer that’s due tomorrow. And I can’t figure it out because, Well, if I don’t do the washing now, then it carries over. And so maybe it is urgent.

And so this is… it’s like I can know the tool, but I actually need someone sitting beside me to say, That’s not urgent, you can leave that one off.

So it really depends how hands-on this executive functioning coach is.

Jane McFadden:

Jasmine, this is ADHD you’re describing. I mean, I did a whole episode on that. And it’s called, Why am I never doing what I’m supposed to be doing?

Like literally, I’ve done an episode on that. And I mean, look, it’s a great episode, but it’s more about just starting somewhere, because we don’t really know how to prioritise very well.

The house is on fire, but my kid needs its shoe done up. Which one will I do? And you stand there for so long that actually you could have done both, and you haven’t decided yet. That’s ADHD.

Jasmine Meek:

Oh, I would be doing the shoelace because that is the easier job. And my husband would be going, Do you need to be doing that right now? And I’d be going, Well yeah, I don’t know.

Jane McFadden:

So, silver lining — not really a silver lining — a plan B/C. There’s this drug that is less regulated, it doesn’t have street value, and it’s called atomoxetine. And it is a bit like… it works a bit more similarly to like an antidepressant, where it’s one a day, it would take a few weeks to take effect, but it’s far more subtle.

So it does work on — I read about it — it’s a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor. So they give these ones to people who can’t take stimulants for whatever reason. But it could be more expensive because it would have to be a private script.

’Cause again, you wouldn’t have an official diagnosis. So I have to — at least for the short term — I have to kind of talk to my GP about what’s going to have the biggest impact on my life right now: this atomoxetine or an anti-anxiety or antidepressant. What’s going to really quickly make me stop screaming at my kids?

And then long term, yeah… what the heck can I do?

Jane McFadden:

Okay, make sure you ask — if you go down that route — that if you do get a diagnosis, what will you then do? But I’m just saying, I talk to a lot of ADHD women all the time, and a lot of them will say, I went there and I got the anti-anxiety medication because I couldn’t get anything else. And I was gaslit everywhere. And then I ended up in another whole problem. So just be aware of that.

And I know you just want a quick… like, I’d be like, you’ve waited for that appointment, right? You waited for your mum to come back from overseas to talk to her. You booked the appointment. Your nan passed away, which is so… I’m really sad, sorry about that. That’s a shit set of circumstances there, right? You finally got your appointment, and then you haven’t got what you needed.

What would be the wait period if you went back and saw her? And maybe you and I offline — or online, whenever — can go over masking. Because I feel like if we went over masking with ADHD and you and I were to have a chat, I don’t think we’re dissimilar in our childhood. I honestly don’t.

This is probably why I’m getting a bit emotional, because I feel like we’re probably not dissimilar. And I was very lucky to have a psychologist I’d seen for a long time hold my hand and persistently step me through it, where I was going, Nah, nah.

So I’m thinking if you and I could unpack what a day looked like, knowing that I have diagnosed ADHD, I have three kids with ADHD, my brother has ADHD, my dad had ADHD, my grandma had ADHD… I come from some pretty heavy ADHD gene pool. Very confident that I have it.

I think it would be interesting to see how you and I would present if we were to compare childhoods and how we were at school. Because you talked in your first episode about you at school and at uni, and I thought we were similar. So I’m a little perplexed by some of what you’ve said, because I’m looking at you going, I actually know a lot of your history. You told it to me and we’ve spoken offline and we’ve messaged a lot. And I’m like, I can’t see you not having those childhood symptoms.

But what I can see is that you haven’t seen the masking that’s taken place and the structures that you’ve given yourself because you’re smart. That’s what I think you can’t see.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. I said to the psychiatrist, I had a deep respect for adults and authority. So I know that there were times — like I remember times being told, you know, “Jasmine, stop talking.” But I was able to pull myself up.

And I said, The other thing is, I know I got away with — because I was a good student, I was a goody two shoes. I think I must’ve enjoyed learning. I think I’ve always enjoyed learning. So I probably had that kind of focus because I was enjoying myself. And I remember having thoughts like, I get away with whispering to my friend because the teachers like me because I’m likeable and I’m smart. And because when they do pull me up, I stop.

I didn’t have that hyperactivity of a couple of boys in my class who yet couldn’t stop. So they would — like, Stop, you know, Ben, stop talking. And Ben would go, Okay. But then Ben would start again.

I didn’t have that. I didn’t have the hyperactivity. And I remember other kids going, But Jasmine was doing it! And the teachers liked me and they let me get away with things.

I know in high school, like it was like the Year 11 exam or something. It was like Year 11 or 12. And the teachers had like a good sense of humour, I guess, for the clever kids, because one of them, one teacher, she put our names in the final exam.

So like the sets of couples, like the boyfriend-girlfriends that had spent the whole time chatting and disrupting the class by sitting next to each other. And she wrote like, Jasmine and boyfriend are buying a house together. What is their mortgage if X = Y?

They had this sense of humour about it. But it was obvious — we were disruptive. Like, there was the evidence. But we were clever kids. So the teachers… I don’t know. They were affectionate towards me, whereas they weren’t affectionate to Ben and Brendan, who were running up the walls, so disruptive.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. And the psychiatrist said, Right, okay. So you said you were chatty. You said you talked a lot. Were you always getting in trouble for it? And you were like, No, that’s the thing.

So that’s the difference. Oh, come on. This is just — this is not progressive.

Jane McFadden:

But if we look at the definition of ADHD, this is where I think people get confused. ADHD, if you Google it, it says it’s marked by an ongoing pattern of inattention and/or hyperactivity–impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development.

Okay, but flip it around the other way. I was very hyper-focused on school. I reckon you were too. If I’m hyper-focused on something, or if you’re at your job, Jasmine, as a doula, where you are on and that’s your passion — can you sustain attention?

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

With my Apple Watch, I am. Are you up to date, are you conscientious, are you looking at the wall, or are you looking at the baby coming out? Like, I think when we are — and this is the thing — it’s not inattention all the time.

I actually have an incredible attention span. So do my kids. I post about them playing Uno all the bloody time. All they want to do is play Uno. Can they sit and focus? Yeah, when they want to.

It just means that we don’t have attention on the right things at the right time. We will do up a shoelace instead of putting out a fire. That’s all it means.

I can sit here on this podcast laser-focused. I did three and a half hours of interviewing the other day — didn’t move, didn’t go to the toilet, didn’t eat. I was completely with it.

It’s interesting to me. Then I left the house and I had to go do something and I couldn’t even do a simple task because I was bored by it. Then I had to go do something else, I got irritated with my kids, I was just bored. And I was like, I just want to be interviewing somebody. I want to be learning something.

I’ve always had a hyper-focus on learning. And I reckon you have too. You’ve done like two uni degrees, right? You’re very successful, you’re very clever. We went over this in the last episode. So I’m sure you could switch on and be conscientious when you need to.

I’ve seen ADHD boys — they can play PlayStation for like 10 hours at a time.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah, exactly.

Jane McFadden:

Can they sit and focus? Yeah, when they want to. So if you flip it around and go, this isn’t an eight-year-old boy that’s not interested in school. This is a girl who’s highly intelligent. She’s got a thirst for knowledge. She’s very conscientious. She doesn’t want to let down her parents. And also she wants to be the good girl.

She’s perfectionistic. She’s probably got an underlying anxiety. Would you expect her to be disruptive? No.

This is my personal opinion. And it struck me when you said before, if you said “impairs functioning or development,” they’re not looking at development. They are only looking at functioning.

So I talked a lot, got told I talked a lot, but did I get in trouble for it? No. But did I develop anxiety because of that? Did I develop severe self-esteem issues because I was told I was too bossy, too talkative, too much?

And now I have a voice in my head that tells me to — not a literal voice — but a voice in my head that says, Be quiet constantly. So they’re not looking at that kind of development. They’re not looking at neural development.

So that is childhood. Why would you have a constant voice in your head that you spoke about last episode that said, You’re being too much. You need to be more quiet. Don’t talk so much. Why would you have that if you hadn’t been told that many, many times?

You may not remember, but that’s a subconscious thing. You’re obviously running around as a three-year-old with lots to say, because someone has told you over and over again, Jasmine, be quiet. Mummy needs a break. Jasmine, stop talking. You’re supposed to be listening at school, sit on the mat.

And maybe you were told gently. Or — you know what else, ADHD — I’m bloody oblivious. I’m oblivious to people telling me what to do sometimes because I don’t care.

So I look back on my childhood. I can tell you I was never in trouble. I was an angel student in my mind. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know. But I was very bossy in the playground. I had a lot to say. I was very loud. But I don’t remember being disruptive at all.

At all. I can fully understand why you’d be left in your position, but it sucks that we have to keep trying.

There was someone I interviewed the other day — she went to like three psychiatrists, and she just persisted and persisted. And it was only because I think her mum was a health professional and she said, No, no, no, this is not right. You have to continue.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah.

Jasmine Meek:

I have a very good GP that I think I could be pretty honest about this stuff with. And I think I could have these conversations and say, Yeah, like I get the criteria thing. I get the strict rules because Ritalin has street value. But I also believe my underlying problem is ADHD, not anxiety. I believe that my anxiety would reduce significantly with stimulants.

And so yeah, she may be able to find me somebody else. And I think that your experience is really good advice for everybody — to at least have a few sessions with a psychologist that understands ADHD first, so that you’re not going to the psychiatrist appointment that you wait months and months for, thinking they are going to do the job for you.

It’s like, it needs to be kind of — you need to know first, really.

Jane McFadden:

One of my good friends up here, she listens to this podcast, she’ll know who she is. We were having a chat and we were just having a coffee. And, you know, you always hang out with neurodiverse people when you’re neurodiverse.

And she was like, I think I might be neurodiverse. And I was thinking, I’ve known that for years, but you know, okay. And you know, her son is diagnosed, and the only reason that she’s kind of looking into it is because of course she’s doing the interventions on her son and realising they work for her. Surprise, surprise.

Also, she had taken some of his medication by — on purpose or not on purpose, who knows — and she found it had a very calming effect. Weirdly, that’s a quick way to figure it out. I mean, you do know pretty quickly because it is an ADHD Panadol in my mind. Which again, I’m not a medical professional, I shouldn’t call it that, but it does… you get a quick effect. So you do know pretty quickly.

Like I remember walking around going, Everything’s so quiet in here. Why is it so easy? Life’s flowing. I wonder why there isn’t more love. How can we include people? Jeez, I love my husband. Like I just felt so calm and happy. And I was like, Holy shit. And then it wore off.

Anyway, so my friend said to me, Look, I want to go see someone in person. I want to get a proper diagnosis. I want to sit down. I want to see a psychiatrist. My husband doesn’t believe in medication, so I want to have something solid to hand him because I don’t feel like he’s really believing me.

So anyway, she goes up to a bedroom, she sees a psychiatrist, got in pretty quick — maybe that was a red flag for both of you, Jasmine. She got in pretty quick and she was pretty happy.

Oh wow, got in that way. And I was like, Really? Got in? Anyway, basically he read out from Google, asked her questions. She’s a nurse, so she already knew what they were, and she wanted him to validate her.

She was looking for him to say yes and to explore it with her and talk about how it was impacting her life. She wanted to hear it, to feel it, right? For him to validate her, which I think was a mistake. I think she needs to validate herself, is what I think she needs to do.

But she walked away bitterly disappointed. He diagnosed her, but literally he read from Google what she’d already read. There were no surprises. And then she said, Oh, I already knew all that. And he just read it to me, and then he wrote me a script.

And I was like, Isn’t that what you wanted? And she’s like, No, I wanted him to confirm to me. I wanted to feel it. I wanted all this stuff. And I’m like, I think you’re putting too much power into this guy. Like he’s just a dude. He’s probably yelled at his kids earlier today and he road-raged at someone else. Like he’s just a person.

So, and he probably gets it right and wrong. Like he’s on Google, mate.

The other route that you’ve got is to see a clinical psych and get diagnosed — like they call it a neuroaffirming assessment. Get ready to spend, you know, two and a half grand. You could take that back to the psychiatrist and they could help you with the masking.

You could probably just do that in some straight sessions that wouldn’t cost you two and a half grand. You could probably do it over, you know, a $100 gap over three or four sessions with an ADHD female specialist, which, you know, is kind of what I did.

But so, I mean, you could do that. You could do an assessment, you could do a couple of sessions. And if you were feeling not confident and you wanted to feel that validation, you could get the psychologist to write it on a letter.

You know, I do see the childhood symptoms in this way. I’ve seen this before. Or you could go back to the psychiatrist and go, I’ve been thinking about it and I’ve been talking to my mum and my sisters, and actually I do remember this, I do remember that. She sounds like she wants to tick it off. She’s just trying to get you to say it and then go back and get the medication.

Or, you know, you can go back to your GP. And I suppose you’ve always got the option, which I know isn’t really one at the moment, to do nothing. Like you do have some options here, but it’s a disappointing…

Jane McFadden:

…like, I mean, for the people on the end — like we always do video, but we don’t air the video — so I would say to people, Don’t put on makeup, who’s going to judge you? I’ve got a terrible background here with my kids’ art shit that’s everywhere.

But when I spoke to you, Jasmine, the first interview, I thought you were quite bright and vibrant. That was my impression of you. And then we get on the second one, and as soon as I looked at the video, I went, Oh no, it’s not going well.

So I think you’ve got a bit of emotional kind of jet lag too. You look tired, a bit beaten down, if you don’t mind me saying. Like, I think, you know, there’s just a bit of a… there’s the high and there’s the drop.

And then of course, I’m just telling you overwhelming options where you’ve got to do more things to get the result that you should’ve got anyway. Do you know what I mean? Like, I also need to respect the fact that — like, I interviewed a naturopath the other day, and by the time she finished talking to me about all this stuff, and I love naturopaths — I was like, That seems like a lot of work, and I didn’t action any of it.

So you know what I mean? I feel for you.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah. I think when something’s impacting your current functioning so much, but you can’t get the help you need because you weren’t impacted in childhood, it’s—

Jane McFadden:

Well, you were impacted, Jasmine. Jasmine, you were impacted. But your intelligence — you were probably a really… you’re probably a really pretty little kid too. And I know it’s not about physical looks, but I’ve got teachers and they said, Oh yeah, a pretty little conscientious, smart little girl probably got away with a little bit more.

And you probably were really interested in schoolwork. And I’m sure you were inattentive elsewhere. And also, if you’re very conscientious and, you know, your family didn’t have a lot of money — would you lose your hat? Yeah. That’s violating the good girl code right there.

Jasmine Meek:

And it’s funny, because things like having a messy bedroom — like, of course I had a messy bedroom, and I remember that. My mum doesn’t remember it, but I remember it.

But like, every kid has a messy bedroom. And so it’s a lot of those things where it’s like, if it didn’t stand out to me at the time, and it didn’t stand out to my family… I was the youngest of five, and by that point probably nothing surprised my mum.

And with her own — well, she said herself that everything she saw me doing, she was just so impressed. There were things she was not able to do. And she probably lived vicariously through the successes of all of her kids at different times.

And it’s hard work trying to look back at your childhood and tease it out. And it’s almost like I’ve got to kind of ruin my childhood by going real deep and figuring out what things were wrong, when I’ve spent my whole life going, I had an idyllic childhood, it was lovely. So it’s a hard pill to swallow.

Jane McFadden:

Well, you probably did. And you know what else? It sounds like your parents were really like lovely people, to be honest. So they were probably just focused on the positives. They were probably neurodiverse themselves. So they’re not seeing any of this as glaring flags.

They’re saying, Is this normal behaviour? She’s actually a little bit better than I was. Yeah, because you’re the youngest of five. You didn’t have a lot of money, so everything’s important. You’re not going to lose your shoes at every park, like my kids do.

Because me, I’m such an idiot sometimes, I just replace them with another Kmart pair. And that’s terrible for the environment and for bloody the poor child labour that do it. It’s horrible.

But I’m pretty sure if I said to my daughter, This is the only pair of shoes you’re going to get this year, I reckon she’d hold onto them. It’s a different place now. It really is.

But even all that anxiety, you said all that anxiety came out at 17.

Jasmine Meek:

Oh, yeah.

Jane McFadden:

That’s really typical ADHD. And you know how you talked about in the last episode about how uni was unstructured and you fell apart? And being at home and being at school was all structured and it was all short-term and you knew what you had to do.

Jasmine Meek:

And I was just so taken care of. Totally. Nothing was expected of me growing up. I remember I just had to… I didn’t even have to take the bus. I got picked up by my parents. My dad waited in the car outside dancing until I finished because he had to take me to my next dancing appointment.

I just told my parents where they had to be, and they were there. There was no — I didn’t have to double-remember things like I do now.

Jasmine Meek:

And I said to the psychiatrist — this is so funny, I feel a bit like you, it’s like, gosh, I sound up myself — but I said to my psychiatrist, Yeah, uni, I stopped being the straight-A student and I just started being an average student.

And she said, Like, what was your GPA? I said, Oh, I only finished with a 5.1, I think. And she goes, But that’s not average. Four is average.

Which I don’t agree with her, because when I went to uni, four was only a pass. But it was just really funny that in her mind she was like, That’s still okay.

But it wasn’t my potential. My potential was straight A’s. I should have been doing better, but I wasn’t, because suddenly I had to learn to pay bills and rent.

Jane McFadden:

That’s what I mean though. And I think with ADHD, this is where girls can get caught out, because they don’t get picked up, because they’re conscientious and smart. Those particular girls are the ones that get through.

But also, if we look at your coping mechanisms, let’s have a look. You had, from what you said, great parents. You had a really lovely family. So your coping for you as a child probably was at a good place. You were loved. You were safe. Your parents were there when you needed them. And you had a safe place to go.

So if you’d had a rough time at school, you could go home, shut your bedroom door. You were safe. You were loved. That’s so important. So you’ve got that, and you’ve got less to do, because you’re looking after yourself.

As a child, you’re still being independent. You’re then going through high school, uni — you’ve still got only yourself to look after. You’ve got a job, you’ve got uni. You’re okay. You can control this. This is okay.

You’re also very clever. So you’re still getting through a little bit more easily, even if you are a little inattentive. Because they go over the concept, you’re fine. You’ve just got to know it once.

Then if you fast-forward through — now you’ve got two little people. You’ve started a business. You’ve got two small people that rely on you heavily, that are very young. You’ve also got a partner. You’ve got all the financial stress. You’ve got all the emotional stress. You’ve got no place to rest.

You’ve got multiple people to look after. So all you’re doing is adding layers and layers and layers of stress and things to do on somebody who has to work — and I’m just talking shit — twice as hard as someone else with a neurotypical brain to remember it all. Your executive function isn’t great because you possibly have ADHD.

So you’re just adding more and more and more and more and more layers. So yeah, if we talk about how it impacted you, it might be impacting you more now, but only because you have a ridiculous amount of stuff to do, and because you are very clever. So you’ve got to take that into account too.

And the irony is, I would say people who don’t have ADHD would prescribe us taking on less stuff. Like, Okay, well, if you struggle and you’ve got executive functioning issues, then don’t start a business.

The problem is, people with ADHD start the business. People with ADHD say yes to that new opportunity. People with ADHD start a podcast.

Before I had an inkling that I had ADHD, I remember crying into my husband’s arms one day, and I said, I wish I was the person who could stop adding things, who could just sit still figuratively and just do one thing for my whole life. But I’m just not that person.

And that was so pivotal for me. It was before even realising it was an ADHD symptom, acknowledging that I am innately driven and wired to do new things all the time. So it’s a real cognitive effort for me to say no to something.

So someone says, Do you want to have a play date? Yeah, I do. Yep, let’s take our kids and have a play date. Oh, okay, I’ve got that appointment at nine, so I could probably get there at 9:30. Oh wait, hang on. The appointment goes for an hour. Yeah, I’ll get there at 10:15 or something. I’ll give myself 15 minutes to get there.

Other people would go, I’ve already got an appointment in the morning, and that might be a bit much, a bit of a rush. And the other people would remember their toddler’s nap time too.

I just say yes, because I want to go see that person, because seeing people is fun. And then I’m stressed and I’m exhausted and I feel stupid when my boy starts getting tired and grumpy, and it’s like a distant friend that says to me, Oh, what time’s his nap? And I go, Oh yeah, oh yeah, his nap. Yeah, about now.

And I feel like an idiot. So you can tell people with ADHD that they, you know, play to your strengths, don’t take quite as much on. But the problem is, that’s really quite impossible in my opinion.

Jane McFadden:

You know what, I completely hear you. And you know, my psychologist said to me a couple of months ago, You’re probably not going to be that old lady that’s going to be able to have a cup of tea and look at the water. That is not in your future.

And I think you need to have a look at hyperactivity, but look at hyperactive mind. When they talk about hyperactivity as a child, I wasn’t hyperactive physically necessarily that I remember. I was very active, but I wouldn’t say I was like off my head.

But what I would say is that I have a very hyperactive mind. I would stay up till midnight reading encyclopaedias. Is that normal? I don’t want to use the N word — normal. But if you had have said to me, Were you hyperactive? I would have said no.

But I do think staying up till midnight reading encyclopaedias because I wanted to know boy zebra was bigger than the female zebra — that’s hyperactive. The thirst for knowledge.

And I think you’ve also got a very hyperactive brain, which is what I have. And I just jam-pack it in so hard. And then I’m so exhausted, drag my kids along with it. And I can’t stop. And that there is the problem.

However, again, I don’t want to rub it in — medication, Jasmine, will help you with that, because we have reined it in and it is easier. And the drive for more becomes less. It does. For me, it has on medication.

So again, if you go and take an antidepressant and you just keep driving the symptoms, yeah, like you might feel a little bit less sad at the end of the day, maybe, I don’t know. But you will still drive yourself insane, which is what I do to myself, however medicated I am better.

But the physical — literally in my body — I have to do something. I have to be productive. That has gone. But I will always be a driven person. I will never be able to chill-chill. But I can be okay for a few minutes.

I can read my kids a book, which I couldn’t have done before. That stuff, I am definitely a better version of myself because I am more patient, more calm, more like, Okay, we’re going to get there when we’re going to get there. Less like, You’re getting in the way of my task list for your old child. Do what I’m asking because I need to go on the computer. That’s unrealistic, but that’s what I would be like — I’ve got to get this done, and it’s not even important.

So I do think for you, just because we’re so similar, this is why I’m getting upset for you, because this is freaking me.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah, definitely. I have to explore a couple of avenues and just maybe be prepared to be a bit more confident, whether that’s through my own research and find a couple more things from my childhood that can be better indicators. And then just be more confident about it and go, This is it, and give the answers they need really.

Jane McFadden:

I reckon if we went through the symptoms — let’s go through the inattentive symptoms and the hyperactive symptoms, you and I — and then I reckon you tell me what you were like, and I reckon we can figure out where the masking was. I reckon we can lift the lid off this.

Jasmine Meek:

Yeah, this is what I expected from my psychiatrist.

Jane McFadden:

It’s not not there, it’s just not clear. If you get clear on how it looked, because it’s there — it’s not not there — then I reckon you can go, Yes, I did feel this. Yes, I did feel this. If they ask you, you will be able to elaborate, because you have reflected a little bit more deeply.

Jasmine Meek:

Maybe that’s it. Yeah. And I’m just really glad that I’m able to share this experience with other mums so that they don’t do what I did and assume that somebody else will dig deep enough. Be confident. Go in confident about your childhood symptoms, I think was the biggest lesson I learned.

I know some people, it takes a few appointments to get the diagnosis. The impression I got was kind of that because I ticked every single damn box and had so many symptoms now, that if I just backed that up with, say, three definite childhood symptoms, I reckon she would have been like, Done.

Yeah, going in confident.

Jane McFadden:

Let’s finish up. Look, thank you so much, Jasmine. Always a pleasure to interview. I thank you for being so open and honest. I think this episode is going to be a cracker.

If I hadn’t — well, I would never have gone to a psychiatrist, straight up. I would never have been open. If I hadn’t have gone to my psychologist first and he’d done this with me, I never would have been here today, which is why I’ve gotten a bit emotional about it.

I thank you so much for your time, Jasmine.

Jasmine Meek:

Thank you.

Jane McFadden:

If anyone would love to hear more, they would love to help us out a little bit, I’d love you to leave a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. The reason I ask is because then it brings up ADHD Mums in their criteria.

When people search ADHD in Australia, it comes up — as opposed to a lot of the moment, UK and US ones. It’d be great to get the Australian podcast up a little bit higher. Thank you so much for your time.

And thank you for you, Jasmine, as well.

Jasmine Meek:

Thanks.

Jane McFadden:

No worries.