Jane McFadden:

Hello and welcome to the next episode of ADHD Mums. Today we have an episode that I’ve personally been really excited about. It is an episode about something that a lot of us talk about kind of with maybe a best friend or a sister or a husband or somebody very close with us, probably a counsellor, but not something that we speak about openly.

So this episode is really going to be a vulnerable discussion with somebody who’s put her hand up to talk about what shit is really like for mums these days. So this episode will be called something like I’m just not enjoying this.

One of my pet hates is all the memes that say enjoy all the moments.

For example, I was at the petrol station last year and I was moving house and I walked inside, left my boys in the car and they immediately got out of the car. Nella got hit by a car, ran into the shop and then started powering around the petrol station, pulling everything off the shelves. And I was turning around yelling at them at the same time as trying to pay and move house.

The new owner was telling me when I had to leave and this older lady came up to me and said, you know, they’ll get older soon. You will look back on these moments. And I felt like clocking her in the fucking face.

So there are, we all have those moments. And with that, we welcome to Sarah, who’s been very, very kind enough to put up a hand for this episode. Welcome to you, Sarah.

Sarah:

Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to talk today.

Jane McFadden:

Beautiful.

So Sarah is 30. She’s married. She’s got two kids under three. She works in the public service and they also have their own business on the side as well. Life is very busy and you’re at the thick of it, Sarah. Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah. Well, and truly in the trenches right now. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And so the reason that this episode came about was because I have a pregnant friend who has a much anticipated baby on the way. It’s not her first child. This is not her first rodeo.

And she’s pretty heavily pregnant. And I was having a chat with her, like a bowling alley that we’ve mistakenly taken our kids to, because I for one had a fucking awful time there. And as we were leaving, she said, I just want to enjoy all the moments. And I’m just worried it’s going to pass me by. And this might be my last baby. And I’ve looked forward— she’s had a fertility journey with this baby.

I want to enjoy the moments. I don’t want to wish the time away. I don’t want to be impatient. I don’t want to be grumpy. Don’t be my phone. I want to be with my baby the whole time.

And I said to her, well, that’s just a lot of fucking pressure to put on yourself, isn’t it? Because that’s not actually how I feel a lot of the time. And I put up a story and I said, I’m just actually not enjoying this. I enjoy this about 30% of my day at the moment.

And the amount of women that responded to that story has been by far still the most replied to story. And I reckon 98% of them were under 40%. There were probably five people that I had to check on one by one because I thought, I think I need to send them Lifeline’s number.

This has probably become too intense. The next day I put a story out and I said, you know what I think would make people feel better? Someone sharing this story about what it’s actually like and us actually making people realise that they are not alone in this. And that’s what this episode is about today.

And Sarah, of course, is in the throes of it. Doesn’t get much harder than what it is now. Can you share for us a bit, Sarah, an overview on how you’re feeling, what your day is like, and I suppose some of the key things that are happening for you.

Sarah:

Yeah. So I only recently got diagnosed at the start of September, right before my 30th birthday, midlife crisis at its finest. I thought I had depression and I thought I had anxiety and I had a few people telling me I needed to get help.

So I went down that path. I actually started that path when I had my son, who’s now two and a half. I went on mat leave. I just felt alone. I felt lonely. I missed being at work. I missed the connection with people. It was also, what was it, 2021. So right in the thick of COVID as well.

And as soon as I went on mat leave, even before I had my son, I was like, what am I doing? I need people. I need to talk. This is, you know, I need to be doing something.

So I had my son, love him. You know, we wanted him so badly. We had a miscarriage before him. So he’s a blessing to us. But yeah, I always had this thought in the back of my head that, you know, my life had changed because of him.

And I mean, yes, it’s a great thing. Don’t get me wrong. And I’m so grateful for him every day, but I also miss my life. And sometimes I feel quite selfish over that, you know, that I don’t get the same experiences. I don’t get to do the same things I used to do and everything else.

Plus now throw ADHD on top of that, which I’m still discovering and learning every day about. And I still don’t think my medication’s correct at the moment. However, that’s a different story.

But now that I have my daughter, I literally, I can look at her and I can stare at her in the eyes and go, I love you. And I want to love you. But I also need to go do something. Like I need to be busy. You know, you know, yeah, okay, you’re sitting up now you’re smiling. That’s cool. I love that. But I also need to go do this.

So I just feel the guilt all the time.

Sarah:

But anyway, so everyone thought I might have had postnatal depression. So I thought the same thing, right? First-time mom, okay, let’s go have a chat.

Had a chat to a psychologist who was great and talked me through in a few sessions. And I felt better. I actually went back to work kind of after four months of having my son online because we were in COVID.

I’m just doing some contract work on the side just so I had that fulfillment and I was doing something in the mix of looking after him as well. So I wasn’t just sitting there staring at a wall basically. So that was great.

Been surviving and stuff like, like as well. And then my daughter came in April this year. Again, super happy, love her. We’ve now got the pigeon pair. So I think we’re done. I don’t know if I can mentally handle another one.

But yeah, I, again, as soon as I had her started feeling, you know, the down thoughts like, oh no, this is happening again. I need to get some help.

The first psychologist I went and spoke to basically just told me to leave my husband without actually listening to her story and everything else. So within an hour, yeah, she told me to leave my husband.

Jane McFadden:

She really has her own bias there. Like, I feel like she’s left her husband and is living now a good life or she wants to leave her husband and she’s not.

Sarah:

Yeah. She literally told me, like gave me like the TED talk though. Like, you know, I did it and it was the best thing I ever did. And I remarried and had more kids.

And I was just like, I have like an eight-week-old daughter and my son, like, and I love my husband, you know? Yeah. Okay. Things are a bit hard right now, but that’s not what I’m talking to you about. Talking to you about me.

And she was the owner of that company as well.

Jane McFadden:

So, you know, they’re not actually allowed to do that. Cause I’m just trying to imagine, right. If you’re super stressed and you may or may not have postnatal depression or, you know, you’re going through a very hard time.

Can you imagine you making a decision to leave your husband in the middle of that? Cause that would actually add lots of layers on.

Sarah:

Yeah. Literally. She said, you know, I know this will be the hardest thing you’ll ever do in your life, but yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Wow. That’s another episode, right? So I kind of want to go there, but let’s just leave it. Anyway, went back to the doctor, got a referral to see somebody else. Went and saw them.

Sarah:

They’ve been absolutely amazing. They’ve turned my life around. I’ve told them I’m going to be on this podcast. They are super excited to be able to listen to it and pass, you know, my story onto other, you know, moms as well in the same boat, because she said it is so, so common.

So anyway, we were just chatting one day and having a talk and I said, I think I have ADHD. And she’s like, well, I’m not qualified to tell you that, but like, Hey, let’s have a look at this. Let’s explore.

So we did some online questionnaires together. We looked at the circumstances. We spoke about what I was like at school and whatnot as well. And she’s like, you know what? I think, I think you might like high functioning ADHD here. Like you can still achieve things. You still look absolutely amazing from the outside, but on the inside, you are really not coping.

And I said, I think you’re right. And I think having kids and not being in control at all is what’s triggering it massively because it was also triggering my anxiety to the point I couldn’t even walk into Big W without feeling like I was going to die with my children. So it became quite debilitating. So I was so desperate to find an answer as to what was going to happen.

 

Sarah:

So from there, we did the questionnaires. I got a referral to see a neurologist, much to my GP’s despair, who wasn’t supportive at all about the whole situation, but still gave me the referral. I managed to get in to see him within three weeks, which was awesome.

I know how long does some people wait? I saw him. He literally got me to do another questionnaire on a piece of paper that had already been half filled out by the way, by somebody else and said, yeah, okay. I think you’ve got it.

Jane McFadden:

Did you just, you could have just keep following on the other guys, whoever had been there before you get the answers in front of you that like.

Sarah:

Yeah. And not only that, I was too, like he was running two hours late in the appointment. Right. So yeah, I left with my script. I had no idea what to do.

I actually second guessed myself entirely straight away. My husband who was told to leave originally was very, very supportive and said, neurologist isn’t going to give you this assessment for no reason here. You need to endeavour this. Let’s see what is going to happen.

So I started the medication, which to be honest, from the first tablet, literally within the first half hour, I was like so much more patient with my son. I wasn’t yelling at him and rushing him out the door. Like, come on, come on, come on. Like, I’m like, okay, mate, like if you want to do that, that’s an extra 10 seconds. That’s fine. Like this is okay.

And in my head, I was already like, what am I doing? This is not me. I’m so used to being go, go, go that I was not used to being calm. And I noticed it straight away. So that was amazing. And I have been on it since it’s been great.

I still think there’s still a lot of tweaking I need to do there. I seem to still not become enough, still trying to really search for things to do, even if I don’t have things to do.

And yeah, so anyway, I went back to my GP for another reason, told her I had the diagnosis. She again said she’d still didn’t believe me and said that she’d be more than happy to take me off that medication and just put me on anxiety meds instead.

So convinced me to start taking anxiety medication as well.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. I mean, they haven’t even got the ADHD one right now.

Sarah:

Yeah. I know. It’s like, this seems a bit crazy, but okay.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah. So I felt absolutely rubbish for about two weeks there. Anyway, she was just so unsupportive about it all. And I was like, you know what? Like I’m going to go find someone else here.

So I actually reached out on a Facebook forum local to our town and said, this is my situation. Does anyone like know any good GPs around that could help me? And I actually got put onto a doctor who is the most amazing person. She actually is neurodivergent herself as well.

Jane McFadden:

Great. I’m like, you know what, if I’m second guessing this, she’s going to know an answer for me of all people, like for sure. So I went and saw her. Either that or she’ll research it for you.

Sarah:

Hey. Yeah. Yeah. She’ll actually put in the effort to try. A hundred percent.

And you know what? I’m going to give you her details after this, because I really think you should have her on a podcast because she has crazy stories to tell as well. She has. Yes.

She was just relatable straight away. Like I could tell her anything and she knew straight away how it felt or what I was thinking in my brain and just had no judgment. Was so clear on the research. Explained things because I said, I don’t actually even know what ADHD is. Like, can you actually tell me? Because the neurologist never gave me a leaflet. The doctor doesn’t believe it. What is it?

And she’s just been amazing. So she’s already tweaked my medication a little bit. We still need to do some more. She gave me a heap of strategies, but she just made me feel clear on what my situation was and actually made me feel like it was okay to be in that situation.

So from then now I’m kind of completely aware, well, not completely, but still learning. But every day I’m like, well, this is okay because it is ADHD and I know it’s ADHD now. So yeah, I’m working on it, but yeah, so.

Jane McFadden:

So let’s strip it back because obviously you’ve been going through this with two kids under three and I often make a laugh about it, but it’s not actually funny that we get diagnosed and then we get told to go home and process, but yet we then have screaming children that we immediately walk in the door to.

We’ve got dinner, bedtime. We don’t have time to process. We don’t have time to go to the toilet by ourselves. We don’t have time to shower by ourselves. We don’t even have moments.

A lot of people struggle with that with grief as well, which should probably be a part of an ADHD diagnosis is that there’s just no time to grieve with children.

Yeah. What part of it, what, what part of it, if we get specific about motherhood, do you find the hardest?

Sarah:

At the moment, I think it’s my toddler because he’s just exploring. He’s just trying to be a kid. And I think I get embarrassed by him and sometimes his behavior.

Like if we’re out shopping or whatnot and he runs away instead of me going, Oh, he’s just a kid, I’m like, Oh no, you can’t do that because that’s not allowed. Like everyone’s going to be looking at us and it’s going to make me look like a bad mom and that I can’t control you.

Even though he’s only two and a half, he just doesn’t understand. It makes me feel horrible on the inside.

I remember not long ago, I was still heavily pregnant with my daughter and we were walking through Bunnings and he was having a tantrum. So I picked him up and I was carrying him. And yes, it was kicking me in the stomach and it was absolutely horrible the whole way through.

And there was an old lady that walked out the end of the aisle and she just looked me up and down and just laughed at me. And I was just like, you either don’t have kids—

Jane McFadden:

Whoa.

Sarah:

Yeah. And I’m like, you either don’t have kids yourself or you’ve had kids that long ago and they must’ve been the most perfect saints. If you’re laughing at a mom literally struggling right now, you’re like, you’re seeing a heavily pregnant woman carrying her son, who’s literally kicking her and you can see that and you don’t even often help. Thanks for the womanhood club here. There’s no friendship there at all.

People aren’t looking out for people, which is sad. And I think that’s what also made me embarrassed in a way because I felt like he couldn’t just be a kid around people because it’s the wrong thing to do, if that makes sense.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. There’s rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Have you heard of that?

Sarah:

No.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. So RSD is it’s like acronym. And basically it’s when ADHD people are really sensitive to other people’s criticism.

So for example, let’s say at the end of this interview, I press stop and you have to go and you like, I have to go and you press leave. And then I sit here and decide to myself, Sarah didn’t like my interview. She doesn’t like my podcast.

And I go into this whole story and I hang onto it for days. Now, the reality is you actually might have your husband standing there with your kids and he might be going, we’ve got to get in the car. You’ve gone over, we’ve got an appointment.

But it’s like when you’re looking through the lens of other people rejecting you. And it’s a lot of the time, it’s all you can see. And you don’t take into account other people’s perspectives. And often there’s a very strong emotional reaction to that.

Actually, I’m wondering if that’s a part of that with your child and not being able to control his behavior and then other people reacting to that. And then you seeing that as a judgment on you as a mother.

Sarah:

Yeah. And I think, I think you’re completely right. And to be honest, listening to how that, like what that is with the RSD, I think I have that a lot.

And especially in my career, I had that a lot and I had that from an early age, I guess, as well. I think I can remember being at school and just not feeling like I was good enough on my friends or I am the world’s people pleaser. I am constantly putting other people before myself. And it shows for sure, like I get burnt out so often.

But even in my career, like from the start, like I joined the public service when I was 18. And I think I was two weeks into my first job in the public service. And I got told like, so we just come back from the Christmas break. And I was like, getting pulled into the office and they’re like, you’ve been brainwashed. How don’t you remember this?

And I’m like, sorry, I’m brand new. I’m two weeks into this. Plus we had Christmas break in between. So really I’ve done one week, but I was told, you’re not good enough. Sit back down, keep going, but don’t even bother like trying to excel at this. You’re clearly not going to last very long.

So I think I always took that as a challenge to be honest. And I was like, as a dare, like, come on, like you can do better than this. If people are going to put you down like that, there’s no way you’re going to listen to it.

But I think you’re right. I think RSD is definitely there. And the more I think about it, I can’t stand people being mad at me. So yeah, I think it’s definitely one of my stronger traits in ADHD to do that.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. Cause if you have RSD, you can control things a little bit. You can choose to reply to a message or not. You can choose to be friends with somebody. You can control the way that you act.

You can watch what you say. That’s what we can control. If you’re taking two kids under three to BW, then shit’s going to fly there at some point. There is no way that you can go in and out without having something happen. Right.

So especially having a boy as well. So I think that does sound, no wonder you’re feeling anxious because your mind straight away goes to what other people are going to be judging of you as a mother on how your kids behave in BW. That would actually totally make sense.

Do you feel like consumed with worry about that before or after it? Or like, how do you feel if like one of your kids does go psycho? Do you worry about it later?

 

Sarah:

Yeah. Like I think, I think about it a few days after, to be honest, especially if it’s like something major.

I remember my son went through a stage at daycare where he was biting the other kids and it was horrible, like absolutely horrible. And it made me scared, I guess in a way. I like, I thought, Oh no, he’s going to get kicked out or we’re not going to be able to go here anymore. The other parents are going to hate me.

But then he’d come home and he had a bite mark. So I just had to keep kind of reminding myself that it’s just a phase of their age and they would grow out of it. But at the time I was like, Oh no.

And because I was friends with some of these educators as well, I’m like, Oh my God, I’m going to lose a friend over this because my son’s bitten their child.

But it’s just that reassurance, I guess they kept giving me that, no, no, this is just normal for that age. But yeah, just the fear, I guess, of people judging me because my child was a biter. That was fun.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. No one wants to have the biter. I’d rather my child be bitten than have the biter. The biters are terrible. I’ve had biters and you know what? I was a biter. So I’m just, yeah, I’m a biter.

What about in terms of how it feels? Because obviously as mothers, we love our children and that’s, that’s a given. Yeah. How does it feel day to day in terms of the demands? Not you not being able to do what you want to do because there’s all that grief that we all feel about what our life used to be like.

I think it’s funny because you’re actually more fresh. I’m like eight years in, so I’m used to having no life. I’m used to not getting to do anything I want to do and I laugh about it.

But when I was at your point, it was actually like still brand new and I was like, wow, this is another day where I don’t get to do anything I want to do.

Sarah:

Yeah. So I have like my constant to-do list, which I’m always looking at and never completing as everyone else on this podcast is probably also doing the same.

To be completely honest with you, my son is in school four days a week. My daughter’s in two days a week. And the days that I’m home with her, I can’t wait to put her to bed.

Like, bless, I love her and I love watching what she’s doing and she’s giggling and getting so smart. But I just feel like I can’t achieve anything until she is asleep. And it annoys me because I know I shouldn’t be feeling like that. And I shouldn’t feel like I’m limited because she’s awake.

She can happily sit in a bouncer or sit up by herself now and walk around in a walker. But I don’t know, I just feel like I can’t just focus on something that I actually want to do because she is there.

And it’s the same with my son. I write off like on Fridays, we have the day off together. And I completely just write off Fridays because I’m like, anything that I want to do is not going to happen because I have both of them.

So yeah, it makes it, I feel horrible, but I can’t help it either.

Jane McFadden:

But it’s the, I think that is so relatable. I have called it the drive to be productive. So for me, I have a similar thing. I just feel like I have to do something. Otherwise I might explode soon.

Like I think they talk about with ADHD, it’s like there’s a shark and if it stops moving, it dies. It’s like, that’s how I feel like it is sometimes for me as a mother, like if my child goes, oh, let’s sit down and do a puzzle, I have to put a time limit on. Sometimes I have to put an AirPod in. I have to listen to a podcast or music because I like to stimulate my brain because sitting there physically kills me.

And it’s that, that playing joyous part that I feel like my opinion, personal opinion, this is not expert fact. I think it’s more difficult for ADHD moms to feel that part, which is supposed to be creating all the joy. But like, I don’t think we get a lot of that with the way our brains work.

Sarah:

Yeah. To be honest, I just, I feel like a slave at the moment. Like I’m just, my purpose at the moment is purely just to keep my children alive, keep the bills paid, keep everyone fed and happy. But my enjoyment’s kind of gone out the window while doing that.

And in my head, I’m like, when does, when does Sarah come back? When does she get to be her again? And then I’m also like, no, don’t wish that because then they’re going to be too big and you’re not going to, you’re going to miss everything like slow down.

But it’s just that constant battle going through your mind every five seconds.

 

Jane McFadden:

And then right in the middle of that, I would then find that I would see something on social media talking about someone else enjoying the moments and taking their kids out into the bush with no clothes, with no shoes on. And they would be having their cup of tea with their chamomile and their long hair and the yoga bodies.

And I’d be there 20 kilos heavier with my kids in disarray, my track pants on. And I’d be like, that does not seem like what’s happening for me.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. Like my husband just got home before to watch my daughter for me while I’m doing this recording. And he walks into the room I’m in and he’s just like, so I thought you were doing a meeting.

And I’m like, I am, but I’m in tracky pants with slippers and do not look like I’m going anywhere. No makeup, no nothing. And he’s just like, Oh, okay. Why did I come home then?

And it’s just like, well, to look after your daughter while I do this interview, like because it’s audio, dude, which means crying.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. Go over the top. That’s right. And it’s an hour of important.

Sarah:

Yeah. That’s the part.

Jane McFadden:

Yes. And it’s an hour for me to just breathe. Hopefully.

So let’s talk about something that everybody feels guilt, the mom guilt. How does it feel inside your body when you’re swinging around with emotions? Because your head, your heart is like, I love my child. Of course I love my child. I want these children. I want to be here with them. But your head is like, I’m wanting to do something else.

How does that feel?

Sarah:

It’s absolutely horrible. Like it feels like a whole different kind of, like, I don’t know what bipolar feels like, but it kind of feels like a version of bipolar. Like I’ve got split personalities.

Like I try to have that personality that’s the loving mom that wants to sit down, that wants to do the drawings and the coloring ins and watch my son do that. But the other mom in me is like, no, you’re not coloring in those lines properly. Like I need to help you do that so you do it right.

Even though he is only two and a half years old. So I’m constantly having to try and pull my brain back and go, hang on. No, let him be a kid. Like you were a kid. You were allowed to do this and discover things yourself. Do not be that helicopter mom.

So I’m constantly at the moment just pulling myself back. Like if we go to the park and whatnot and he runs off, instead of me like yelling out my son’s name and saying, come back, like I’m trying to hear, no, okay. Hopefully in the next 10 meters that he’s running, he’ll stop and go, oh, where’s my mom? I need to come back to her.

I’m just trying to constantly, but it’s that, it’s that fight to constantly pull myself up on it and remind myself that it is okay. Have some more patience. Just be a mom instead of, yeah, this crazy woman that’s just always yelling at her kids.

So it’s hard. It’s really hard.

Jane McFadden:

What I think is, is, is really—this is again, my personal perspective, and I’m just talking to you as a friend and podcaster, absolutely not a professional in this podcast—but I think there’s a really strong interlink between perfectionism and ADHD.

And I think a lot of us, including myself, have such high expectations of what we’re going to be like as parents and as mothers. And when I don’t meet that, even if I’m alone in my own house, I will go into my head about what I should have done, could have done.

Why did that child behave like that? So reflection on me, I take the entire thing personally, make it my fault. And then kind of beat myself up a bit. And holding myself to such high expectations is dangerous because they’re kids and they push your buttons like nobody else.

And that’s what I feel like I’m hearing from you a little bit with wanting to get it all right and wanting to have like—holding yourself to that high level.

Sarah:

Yeah, I think I just, I want that white picket fence with the beautiful house and the garden, right? But no one ever has that. So I’m constantly in my head like, come on, make this perfect, make it right. And then it just never works out because it doesn’t for majority people anyway, but then neurodivergent people, it’s just like the end of the world if it doesn’t.

It’s just, yeah, that constant, I feel guilty. I put him to bed and I’m like, oh, I should have read him a book. Everyone else’s mom, they all read books to their kids and that. And I’m like, I didn’t have time though because I had to do the dishes. I should have just left that. I should have prioritized him.

But it’s just that constant back and forth. It literally feels like there is the devil on my shoulder all the time at the moment.

Jane McFadden:

This is, I think, so relatable. I’m like fully there with you. Someone said that—someone said to me a while ago, I don’t know who it was. They said to me, the definition of insanity is ADHD and perfectionism. You can’t ever be happy. It’s a battle. It’s a constant, it’s a constant loop where you never meet your own expectations. And then there’s the blame on other people that if you had have done this differently, I would have felt better. If my child was better behaved, I would have felt better. But actually when you’re battling that, it’s actually only you.

Sarah:

Yeah, definitely. And like, I am the type of person, I know it’s your pet hate, I’ve heard it in your podcast, but I’m the type of person that goes in the shower at night time and just goes, you’re an idiot. Like, why did you do this? Like just constantly beating myself up.

And I’ve learned from your podcast, I need to stop doing that. But it’s so hard to talk yourself out of it when you’ve had a horrible day and you’re then reflecting on everything that went wrong, but not thinking about it.

But this did go right. Or my daughter, she said dad or something like that. Instead of trying to think of the positives, I’m always just looking at the negatives. And it just—it kills me. It does. Because there are so many positives.

Jane McFadden:

Absolutely. But if we’re being real on this podcast, the reason that I say that it’s my pet hate is because I do it. So those words that you said, I say them and worse in the shower to myself.

And you know what is terrible sometimes, especially—my daughter will walk into the on switch, but you said an F word. And I’m like, she goes, Who are you talking to? And I’m thinking, Oh my god, I was just calling myself a fuckhead. And my daughter heard me call myself.

And you think, why was I saying that? Sometimes I don’t even know that I’m saying it.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah, you don’t. It must be like, you get the shower and then you just like berate yourself and it’s coming and your head is coming. It’s so bad.

Jane McFadden:

I think, is that how I talk to myself? Yes, it is. Yeah.

Sarah:

And that’s the other thing, right? I feel so guilty because I’m like, be careful about what you’re saying around my son, because he’s two and a half now, he’s going to start picking up on this stuff and this energy.

And I’m like, the shower is okay at night time, I guess, because he’s in bed. But I find myself even throughout the day if something goes wrong, I’m like, Oh, you idiot or whatnot. And then I look, he’s looking at me and I’m like, Please don’t copy what I just said.

But yeah, it’s—I guess, and then you feel like a failure because you’re not being the perfect role model for your son. Like, yeah, it’s a nightmare. It’s an absolute nightmare.

Jane McFadden:

Absolutely. And the pressure, I think, is intense for from us to be the best. Yeah. Also, as well with neurodivergent people, we know we sometimes have neurodivergent children, which means that often they don’t behave in the way that you want them to, like a lack of impulse control. They’ll run, they’ll jump off things, they’ll not do what they are supposed to be doing, possibly.

So there’s all this extra pressure around us modeling and parenting, because you do have to be on more. I personally find it—I mean, your children are far too young, and I’m not saying that about them at all—but I do think the pressure even amps up higher when you do have children that don’t really do what they’re supposed to be doing.

Sarah:

Yeah, definitely. And my new GP as well, she was fantastic in explaining it. She said, you’ve got a neurotypical person, their brain is at 100%. They can thrive. They’re so happy being at home doing nothing, being patient with their children. You have a neurodivergent person, you say is 20% less kind of like brain—not capacity, but you know what I mean—than a neurotypical person. You’ve given them then two children, in my case, that you’ve got completely zero control over, of course, you’re going to be tapping out way quicker than any neurotypical mom, because you just can’t handle it. And it’s not because you’re a bad mom. It’s not because, you know, you can’t cope. It’s not because you’re struggling—you’re struggling. But what I mean, like, you can still be a mom, it’s just you’ve got to try and find the right strategies and the right ways to manage your ADHD to be the best version of a mom you can be to your kid.

Jane McFadden:

Absolutely. And then where’s your community? Because us in the motherhood vibe, right? You probably need somebody to talk to, we all do, right, to really talk about how it really is.

However, especially for you coming into COVID, having kids right at that same time, there’s nothing more isolating at the same time. Because when you turn up to mother’s group, and everyone’s there with their kids with their bow on, and they’re all like smiling, and they all look so much better than you—because that was my experience.

Yeah, I didn’t realize it was dress up day for mother’s group. Like I just turned up in my trackies, whatever I had on.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And my child, I didn’t even think she was wearing clothes. I think she was wearing an old singlet from the car. Yeah, I didn’t realize it was all show worthy.

And when I arrived, I thought, Oh, this is not the place where you can actually ask questions and tell problems. This is a space where you just pretend you have it all together.

And I’m like, so where’s that part? Because then I had to try and build a friendship with somebody that I could actually talk to.

Sarah:

Yeah. So it’s also very isolating, because these conversations, you can’t just have anywhere.

No. And you know what, like, I’ve found now that I know I have ADHD, I struggle so much more trying to find someone that, I guess, can hold a conversation that I want to relate to or be in.

So I can definitely catch myself now. And it makes so much sense. Someone will be talking at me, and I just completely float away completely.

And I’m constantly comparing stories. It’s almost like I’m making a competition. Like, Oh, your kid does that. That’s cool. But my kid does this.

And I am constantly also picking myself back going, no, no, no, just shut up and listen to them. They’re trying to engage with you. You need to be normal.

Like, so again, trying to push my ADHD out of the way, like, just be a normal mom here. But I struggle so hard.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, it’s funny you should say that, because I have felt similar, and a few people I know have felt similar. It’s either like, people get a real big sense of relief that, okay, this was some of the social issues I was having. This is why I was pretty unaware. So now I’m diagnosed.

I’ve kind of gone the other way, when now I’m a little paranoid. Because for ADHD, often what we do to connect with somebody is we will offer a similar example. That’s an ADHD trait.

So if you tell me about your trip to Fiji, I will also tell you about my trip to Bali, right, which is for the other person unrelated. For an ADHD brain, I’m saying to you, actually, Sarah, I’m really loving your holiday story. Here’s mine. I’m really connected with you on this.

But it can come across like we’re talking about ourselves. But actually, we’re actually connecting in. But that’s just the backward way that we go around doing it.

Sarah:

Yeah. And then later on, you think, oh, I talked about myself all the time. How did that happen? But you’re actually trying to be present.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:

And you’re just trying to make friends at the end of the day. I’m trying to make friends with other mothers in my kids’ classes and stuff. And I’m like, I must just sound like an idiot when they go to the car. I’m just like, what did I just do? They’re never going to want to talk to me again.

But they do. So I guess maybe it’s just because I’m so aware of it now and they’re not that it just, yeah, I don’t know. Beats me.

Jane McFadden:

It’s funny that you said about missing like the theme day at school or whatnot. I dropped my son off to school the other day and he fought with me. And it was a battle. I just let him win that he wanted to wear his sandals with his socks.

And I was like, you look like an absolute goof. But I dropped him off and I apologized to the teacher. And I was like, look, he dressed himself. I had to make that clear. That was not my choice. That’s him.

I got in the car. I looked down. I’m like, you’re an idiot. You are also wearing socks and like sandals. Like, what is this? Double standards here, mom. You’ve completely just practiced what you preach here.

Sarah:

Yeah. Mom fail right there. Oh my God.

Jane McFadden:

So he’s like copied you. He’s copied you. You should feel sorry about this and it’s what you’re wearing.

And I’m all embarrassed dropping him off going, he doesn’t normally dress like this. I’m so sorry. And yeah, it’s what I’m wearing myself. So that’s cool.

That is so ADHD. That is so ADHD.

Jane McFadden:

It’s like, initially back, like when I started this podcast, it wasn’t very well known. Not that it’s hugely well known now, but it’s definitely improved and increased. And I had a few people, so it was harder to get guests.

And I’d get a guest and they’d be like, Oh, I don’t even know if I have ADHD. I could talk about this, but I just don’t know. And it’d be this whole big story.

And I’d be like, well, that’s okay. Just come on. They changed the time like seven times and they wouldn’t turn up. And then they’d have to reschedule.

Then by the time they’d arrive, they’d give me like a 10-minute story about what happened, why it happened. And I was just thinking, how does she not know that she has ADHD? It’s the most ADHD entrance ever. Like people don’t start off like that over a two-month period.

Sarah:

No, not at all. And to be honest, since I’ve started listening to all your podcasts as well, any of the stories from other beautiful women that have been on there, I just relate so much.

Like before I started listening to you, I was like, what do I do with this diagnosis? My parents weren’t entirely supportive. My boss wasn’t supportive. My doctor wasn’t supportive. It was basically only my husband that was. And I was like, what do I do here?

And then I started just randomly searching on Spotify and I’m like, come on, there’s got to be something on ADHD here that I can listen to in the car. And then I found you and I was just like, oh my God, yes, thank you so much.

And being realistic mums in Australia as well.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, that’s so nice to hear.

Sarah:

It’s just been a lifeline in a way, like it is normal. We all have shit days, but there are still good ones. We all still can love our children, even though sometimes we don’t feel like it, and that it does get better.

Well, I’m hoping it does anyway. I mean, I’m still very young in the children side of it, but I’m praying for a better day.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. Well, you know what? Something is interesting. It’s interesting you brought that up because I didn’t want to minimize what you’ve been saying, however, but then it’s like, however, I’m going to go ahead and do it. Sorry about that.

But I do see myself a lot in you years back. Yeah. And I wonder sometimes when you were talking, whether you might be one of those people that’s not a real baby mum.

I don’t think I’m a baby—I don’t find kids sitting up playing, touching one thing, putting it in their mouth and smiling, particularly stimulating. I actually find it really boring, even my own child.

And putting them to bed and picking them back up and putting them to bed and changing nappy after nappy and problem-solving while they cry is not for me, my favourite part of being a mother.

And as my children have become older, I find, especially with my daughter, who’s about to turn eight, a lot more mentally stimulating.

Sarah:

Yeah. Okay. And I think you’re right. And I think I’ve always been in denial about it because my mum is not maternal and I’ve always looked at her and I’m like, why don’t you want to take my kids? Why don’t you want them for a sleepover? Like why?

She does take them when I absolutely need, but she doesn’t offer. You know what I mean? Like most nans and pops are like, oh my God, let me take them away. Let me do this. Let me go spoil them and whatnot. She’s not like that.

And in my head, I’m like, do not be like her. You need to show the love. You need to always show everything, the happiness, give them everything.

My mum’s always constantly like, stop buying them toys. They only need like five toys. That’s all they need to keep occupied, they’re so young.

And I’m like, no, but this is his new phase right now for the week. And I’m just constantly like impulse buying everything that he wants at that time. So then it gets to Christmas and birthdays and I’m like, I’ve got nothing left to give you because I keep trying to give you everything.

And I think it’s because I feel like I’m too busy for him that I feel so guilty that I have to get him things to keep him happy, which I think a lot of mums would be like as well.

Jane McFadden:

I think there’s a lot of impulse, a lot of guilt buys in this area, including myself. And also let’s just be fucking honest for a second. It makes life a little bit easier.

If you get something out of the box, it might make something easier for the afternoon. And if it costs you twenty, thirty dollars, I don’t know. That’s where my head’s at.

It’s not great. It’s not great. I don’t advise people on doing it, but I think we’ve all done it. We’ll probably continue to do it.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I think you’re right. The maternal—I think that’s the natural maternal bug—is not there for me. Like I’ve always wanted children, loved them. I’m so grateful I have them. But yeah, I don’t think the baby stage is for me. Yeah, I think you’re right.

And I did notice that my son, just before my daughter was born, I was enjoying him a bit more because he was starting to string sentences together and I could actually understand what he wanted. And we did things that we both liked doing together.

Like I was trying to start working out him as a human as opposed to a baby. And I related with him a lot more. But I guess now he’s right in the thick of terrible twos and now has a baby sister that I have to share time with, that I’ve kind of lost that connection again. So I’m kind of back down times two in what I was.

Jane McFadden:

So, yeah. If we try and flip it to a positive, one good thing about you and I not loving the baby stage—I have a friend who loves the baby stage, but she actually doesn’t like her children as much, or she doesn’t love the stage as much once they hit over four.

So she’s got like five kids because she’s addicted to the baby stage. But now the youngest one’s four. She’s like, oh, I don’t actually want them now. I just want them when they’re little and they can’t talk and they’re smiling and everything’s new and I love the squishiness.

Once they start saying, no, I don’t want to do that, put the TV on, she’s like, I can’t. That stage she doesn’t love.

So I’m hoping for her that she flicks back over into the teenage years. Her jam.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Or it sounds like she’s going to move where natural stages—yeah, that’s right. Or it sounds like she’s even going to make the most natural grandmother when she’s older as well.

Sarah:

Totally.

Jane McFadden:

She’d probably be great in childcare, that kind of thing. But I think we need to be aware that we’re not, we’re not perfect. I’m hardly the perfect wife. I’m not perfect friend. How could we possibly be the perfect mother?

Because if you’re not all in, in the baby stage, maybe you’ll be all in, in a different stage. Maybe this time is something where you’re literally keeping them alive.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And like another thing—

Jane McFadden:

Maybe that’s okay.

Sarah:

Yeah, it’s true. It is true.

And I don’t know if you can relate to this as well though. I noticed that when I’ve got plans and typical daycare life with all the daycare bugs, one of them gets sick. I’m like, no, you’re not sick. Like we’re still going to go.

Even though I know you’ve got a temperature right now and you’ve had some Panadol, we’re still going because I need that interaction. Not just you, like me.

So I don’t like, yeah. And I guess that’s another thing I guess a lot of other moms can relate to as well. It’s that constant, I guess, trying to get out and just live your life too, but with sidekicks.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And we’ve all done this thing where we whinge about other people that drop their kids off with temperatures. That’s the reason why my kid’s sick. They always do this. We finger point.

And then what do we do when our kid gets the same bug?

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And then we Panadol them up, send them in.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And then when they call us three hours later, we’re like, oh my God, I had no idea.

How many of us have done that? Like, let’s be honest. I reckon, fucking 99%.

Sarah:

Yeah. And no one also wants to be that friend that bails all the time. Right. So it’s just like, suck it up. You’re going to be right. Or I’ll find someone to look after you while I still go because I need that interaction with someone as well. So yeah.

Mom guilt again there. So.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And then you always get the texting like, oh, my son’s got a sniffy nose. Is it okay? And then you have to kind of like agree or not agree.

And then my friends are always like, let’s keep that one over there in that room because that one’s theirs, but we don’t want to give up the time.

Sarah:

No.

Jane McFadden:

Cause you’re like, I’d never get to see you.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Well, you’ve planned a fun day at the zoo and you’ve organized everything or whatnot. And it’s just like, no, we’re still going to do this. Like vitamin D is good for you, right. Like you can get out in the sun. That’ll make you feel better anyways.

Jane McFadden:

Oh yeah. I remember one of my friends, she’s like—I’ve actually, I was there at the pool with her and it was like a swimming carnival. And she’s like, it sounds really bad, but she was really like aggressive about her kid getting in the water.

I think in her mind, she was like, I’ve paid for swimming lessons for like two years. You will get in a swimming carnival and you will swim.

Anyway. So she basically forced her child to swim and she was like crying. And like, when you were like, you don’t know, right. You’re thinking, is she nervous? What is it like? Suck it up. You’re swimming.

So probably an hour after she forced her child to swim, the child got like a 40 degree temperature and like she had to go home from school. She was really unwell.

Sarah:

Oh no.

Jane McFadden:

And I remember my friend, cause I knew her really well. She was like, and then we kind of like looked at each other and laughed and I was like, it’s fine. I get it. But I think she was also like, I’m so embarrassed because I’ve just like forced my child to swim.

Sarah:

I think also I did that myself as a child though. Right. So I would be the kid that would go, it’s an excursion day. I’m like, I’m going no matter what. My dad’s like, no, no, you’ve got a temperature. You’re staying home. This excursion can happen another day.

I’m like, no, I’m going. We’re going. It’s a class thing.

I remember I got to school—I think I was in year one—and I was five minutes into being there and I’m like, no, I’ll be fine. I spewed through the whole classroom in front of everyone, all over myself, everywhere.

And then I didn’t get to go, but I was so determined I was going.

Jane McFadden:

There’s some determination there. Yeah. I guess that’s the perfection thing too.

 

Jane McFadden:

So one thing that us as mothers, I think, feel all the time is the level of sacrifice—the sacrifice of your body, of who you were, any hobbies that you had.

One of my best friend’s husband, he likes to describe it to people—that being a new parent, and this is a horrible thing to do, right? But he’ll just go up to people like, what do you like doing? You like surfing? You like riding your bike? You like playing the PlayStation? You can’t do any of that now.

So I’m like, wow, that’s a really negative spin on it. Thanks for that.

But I think the level of sacrifice is something that’s difficult to fathom. I had no idea when I got pregnant, the level of sacrifice as a mother, what you actually have to give up.

I know career has been a really important thing for you. How have you gone around, I suppose, the sacrifice around your career?

Sarah:

It’s been really hard. So I was 20, I think I was about 26 weeks pregnant with my son. I was at work getting all my handover stuff ready to give to the temp while I was off on mat leave and whatnot and had all my plans booked in.

And I remember one of my supervisors came up to me. At the time I was working for a very high-level person in the public service as an executive assistant.

I remember my supervisor came up to me and said, look, you’ve done nothing wrong. This is not on you. But when you return to work, it’s not going to be in this job because we need you back five days a week. And because you’re about to have a child, you’re not going to be able to do that. So you’ve lost your job, essentially.

And here I am 26 weeks pregnant going like, what? Are you kidding me? How does that work? You can’t do that.

And they’re like, the boss needs you full time. So the boss needs you five days a week.

And I’m like, well, I’m about to have a baby. Obviously, I can’t do that. I can work back up to that stage, but I’ll come back flexibly. Public service is all about flexibility, right? Looking after families and looking after children. Why is this not happening in this circumstance?

And the excuse I got was because this person was said leader of an area that they could choose whatever they wanted. And so I basically got no say.

It broke my heart. I literally walked out and cried and went home. I couldn’t deal. And I think I took two days off even because 26 weeks pregnant, you’re hormonal anyway. But then to know I’d literally just lost the job I’d been in for four and a half years, and I loved every single minute of it, and I was losing it because I was having a baby, which was meant to be the most exciting thing in my life.

I just felt completely lost. I’m like, is it bad that I’m having a baby? Should I have waited longer so that I could have enjoyed my job for longer? Or is this right?

I know this wouldn’t pass the 60 Minutes test, but who do I go to seek that advice and stuff? And to be honest with you, I think I put it down to the boss I had at the time didn’t have kids. And so I don’t think he completely understood at all what he was doing was actually fully impacting my life and my career and everything else.

That boss, they leave the jobs after a couple of years anyway. Whereas to me, I wanted to be in that job. I planned to be in there for a long time. I’d worked really hard from the age of 18. I got that job when I was 23. I climbed levels super fast with people telling me, you’re never going to be anything, sit back down, keep working.

I always took it as the challenge. I got to where I was and I’m like, you know what, this is where I am now. This is where I want to be. But then I lost it because I went to the next stage in my life and had a baby.

So to be honest, I had my son and I sat there miserable because I’m like, I’ve literally lost me because of you. And don’t get me wrong, I love being a mom again. I love the role. It’s the best job in the world, as they say. But I also lost my best job because of it.

And I feel like even now I’ve been trying to work on my career again and choose a couple of different pathways and adventures and whatnot. It’s still not where I wanted it to be. And I don’t know if it’s just because I’m not back full time, I’m not in my A game, I can’t just focus on my job.

I’ve also got two kids at home. I’m always looking at my phone going, oh my God, is that the daycare calling me again? And I just, I feel lost. And I think maybe that’s where the maternal thing comes back into play—that maybe once they’re at school, I can get my life back, my career back.

I can work back up to where I was. At the end of the day, I’m only 30. So I can start again.

But yeah, I was completely shattered. And I feel for any mom that’s in the same boat as me, especially when you do work in a workplace that says from the start, we’ll be flexible. We’ll let you work from home. You can come back part time or support anything you want to do. But then when it comes to the time, it’s like, well, no, you’ve lost it. You can go sit in some back office now and write policy.

And I’m like, no. ADHD for starters. I’m a people person. I need to be the front and center. I need to be in a fast-paced environment. I can’t sit quietly, to the point where I’ve actually resigned from the public service because of it. So yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And I think that’s—it’s so hard. And then when you’re dealing with the sick leave as well, like anything that I do, I always just reflect on how little time I have. And I think, I could have done such a better job if I had more time and space.

So anything that I do, I think, I could have done a lot better job if I actually put my mind to it, because I’m actually like 50% most of the time I do anything these days. So to then actually like, let’s say study again, I’ll be completely incapable of studying or getting any kind of job or workplace or running anything that I would be able to do pre-kids.

So it does feel like we’re capped because we’re capped on energy and time constantly. Any sick leave we get as well, we often have to use for our children. So then we just have to go to work sick or no matter what you’ve got, because you don’t have anything left.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

And then just, yeah, crushing your self-esteem. Like it crushed me completely because of course imposter syndrome at its best. I’m like, what did I do wrong? Why have I lost my job?

Sarah:

And not only that—the boss I had got the old EA that I took over the job from back. So that was another kick in the face at the same time. Like, why am I not good enough now? Like just because I’ve had a kid? This makes no sense. So yeah, it’s been a tough one.

It’s been a really hard pill to swallow. It’s taken me a few years, but like, as I said, I just resigned purely for the fact I reached out to them the other day and said, what options are there before I do pull the switch and say, I’ve had enough? And the comment I got back was, call the 1-800 hotline for HR for them.

And I’m like, yeah, okay. I’ve worked in the public service for this department for 10 years. And you want to send me to the 1-800 number, like someone that doesn’t work here before. So that’s—yeah, that’s enough for me. I’ve had enough.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, that’s a slap. Hey.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

That’s a slap. But I do agree with you though. I think that we are capped in terms of—let’s say you’ve worked up, you’ve been loyal, you’ve worked, you’ve done your best, you’re loving it. To have it ripped away is pretty fucked up. So there’s that.

But then also if you’re reestablishing yourself, you’ve also got two children in tow that are going to get sick. They might have school refusal at some point, then you’ve got to like—it takes forever to drop them off. You could get then a lot of restricted days.

So you might have to be told your child can only attend half the day, or they won’t go to school one day. I always thought it would be better when my kids went to school. It’s also more complex in some ways as well.

I don’t mean that as a negative thing, but I’m just talking to all the mums out there that in terms of moving forward, when you hit school, the days are shorter as well. And someone has to do the pickup, drop off. It’s a constant battle of time.

Jane McFadden:

And then I think we all wonder about—this is just opinion, right? This is just opinion. This is me speculating about divorce rates. But then if you look at two working parents with two kids that may or may not be neurospicy, there’s so much pressure on both of them to give up so much.

And neither of you are necessarily getting to do anything that you want to do. It’s a constant—I don’t want to say battle because it’s, I suppose, negotiation, depending on the type of relationship that you’re in, because everybody feels ripped off.

No parent, I think, really feels like they are going well, or they are feeling like they’re getting time for themselves. I don’t know any people at all that feel like that.

So it’s a constant situation. And then you’re both feeling like crap and that the other person needs to do more, when the reality is both of you are probably at maximum capacity.

Sarah:

Yeah. So my husband and I are working through that right now. And so it’s only been since I got diagnosed with ADHD that he’s fully on board now and been so supportive and great in the fact that we do talk to each other now and we’re like, we’ve reached capacity here. I need to go for a break, or he needs to go for a break.

And we are constantly trying to find things that we can kind of extend each other to to fill up our cup because we’re like, I can see you’re really busy right now. I can see you’re really stressed. So you should go do this. I’ll take the kids, then we’ll tag team it, right?

Because we all want that perfect family that is constantly happy and we’ve got all four of us together at the same time, but realistically it doesn’t work like that.

Like my husband loves building cars, like project cars. He hasn’t touched one since we had my son, so two and a half years ago. And I feel sad for him because I know that’s what he loves, but then he’s also trying to be the dad, working hard, trying to help bring in the bills, like pay the bills—because the living’s stupid right now.

And then here’s me trying to survive as well, trying to get back to work to try and feel normal again. And it’s just, yeah, it’s this constant.

But I’ll tell you what—having such a supportive husband and partner really does make a world of difference.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. It makes it feel like the battle you are fighting, you can survive together.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. I’m glad you said that because I say to my husband a lot that I don’t think I could survive if I didn’t have him. Because it’s kind of like you’re a team against your kids, which sounds really terrible.

Sarah:

It’s true.

Jane McFadden:

But at least you have each other to roll your eyes at, to sit down and watch TV at the end of the day, to give him a call or give him a text and go, Oh my God, this has happened.

I think if you don’t have that relationship, and not everybody does, if you can, I think investing in marriage counseling is a really good idea because I think you are stronger together.

Yeah. And if you can salvage, if you can improve, if you’ve got a partner that’s willing to do some work, it can pay off in dividends. Because feeling alone when you’re actually in a house, in a relationship with someone else would be a level that I could only imagine because I’ve never been there. I haven’t. That’d be horrible.

Sarah:

Yeah. I think if that’s the life that you’re living out there, I think investing in some resources to try and work together is always a good idea. Definitely.

Yeah. Talking to someone together as a couple is amazing too, especially if you feel like what you’re trying to communicate, you can’t get across just talking to them yourself.

Having sometimes that middle person is just really good because they can try and not twist what the other person is saying, but say it in a way to make you better understand or see it from their actual point of view, as opposed to just seeing it as a negative and they’re just nagging or that kind of thing. It is so helpful.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you have one neurotypical person or even two people with ADHD—who knows how it will look—often you’ve got the same intention but a different path.

So often you are actually trying to both achieve the same goal, which is to get dinner on the table so you can both watch TV at night, or to have a date night, or to quieten one kid down. But your way, your pathway is different, but the intention is the same.

And if you can strip back and realize the intention is the same, then you’ve actually got a good partnership there. You’ve just got to understand the path that they’re taking, which is often different.

Sarah:

Yeah, definitely. And it’s great too—I can vent to him and say, I hated today. Our child today, it was an absolute nightmare. I did not want to be a mum today.

And it’s just nice to be able to talk to him and him not judge me and go, well, you wanted this, you wanted the family, you wanted everything, suck it up and get on with it.

Instead, he’s got the approach of like, yeah, okay, he must just be going through a bad time, or maybe he’s coming down with something, or maybe you’re a bit stressed at the moment. Maybe you should go do this instead and just have a break for a bit.

It’s just that reassurance that even if I’m hating on my children for the day, it’s not going to be like that every day. And it is going to get better. Unfortunately, there are bad days and good days. So you’ve just got to work through it.

Jane McFadden:

Well, yeah. I mean, when you’re a proper team, you celebrate the wins and the losses. And sometimes you get to the end of the weekend and my husband and I will be like, that sucked. That was an awful weekend. That was one of the worst we’ve had. Oh my God, how did today get to be the worst weekend ever?

And then we actually had quite a good weekend on the weekend. And it was nice to be able to sit back and go, that was actually okay. There were some half-decent moments there. And you can celebrate the wins and the losses.

I’m very glad you didn’t follow the first psychologist’s advice and leave your husband, because you haven’t done that when now you’re reflecting on what a support he is.

Sarah:

Definitely. And that’s—my psychologist now says the same thing. And she’s like, you’re a completely different person since the first time I saw you. I’m like, well, you didn’t tell me to leave my husband for starters. So yeah, find a good psychologist.

Jane McFadden:

It could be dangerous giving out that kind of advice.

Sarah:

Oh, extremely.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

I think you can always shop.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jane McFadden:

You’ve got to shop around with that stuff. That is such a personal choice. And a lot of people—like my husband and I used to see the same one, and I couldn’t stand her. I used to always fight with her and he loved her.

And I just used to persevere thinking, well, why does he like her so much? Is it me? Went on for ages. And then I eventually was like, oh, I just can’t go back. I just can’t gel with this person.

Jane McFadden:

Look, it’s been so nice—no, I just can’t gel. It’s been so nice to have such an open and honest discussion. Yeah. I think the level of vulnerability that you’ve shown is really brave.

Thank you so much. And I really, I really believe that this episode will make a big difference for people, or for women, to hear experiences. Even just talking to you and then reflecting on ADHD—we have our own examples. That’s how we connect. There’s a lot of similarities.

And I do wonder whether you may not be a baby person, because it might be the phase too.

Sarah:

Yeah, I think you’re right. And the more like I unpack it, I think I can pretty much see it. I mean, I think I just needed that—not reassurance, but yeah, it’s hard to explain, like the battle that you go on with it. And I’m just, I guess I’m just hoping that it does end.

And maybe you’re right. Maybe when they do hit a certain age, it’s going to be all happy days and I’m going to thrive a lot more. And they’re a lot more independent. So I can do the things I want to do without needing to feel like I have to be present, watching them play with a rattle. Like it just doesn’t work like that for me.

But yeah, I think listening to all the other podcasts and that, I just—when you put it out there for someone to put their hand up, I was like, I want to do this. I want to give my story because I feel like a lot of mums would relate to it. But I also want to do it for me because I do want to hear myself say that, yes, it’s going to be hard, but it’s not going to be hard like this forever.

And reassure other mums out there too, that you’re not alone. You’re not alone at all. And it’s pretty much given that any mum is going to feel like that at some point throughout their life, neurotypical or neurodiverse. But yeah, we’ve just got to team up and like join the motherhood and work through it together, I guess.

Jane McFadden:

Absolutely. It’d be interesting to see if we listened to this again in two or three years’ time, right? How you’d feel. Because I have a really strong sensory profile with sound. I find noise to be really grating. I just—it like physically hurts me, loud noises.

I don’t know what it is. And my middle son, he used to cry for like six hours a day. And when he’d get up from his nap in the afternoon, he would cry from two o’clock to like eight o’clock, like every day.

Like he cried and he cried all morning too. He cried all the time. But in the afternoon, he was definitely worse. And I didn’t have any family around to help me. And it was like when he would wake up in the afternoon, after his afternoon nap, I would get like a shiver down my spine of like dread.

I didn’t want him to be—like physically, I would like, oh my God, oh my God, it hasn’t been enough time. He’s up again. And connecting with him, having such a negative feeling with all of the screaming and screaming.

And like we went everywhere. I’ve got parenting specialists, like basically like, there’s something wrong with him, can you fix him? I think he was just that kid. He just cried all the time. His emotional regulation is still a bit off, but now he’s six.

He’s an absolute fucking legend. He’s so beautiful. He’s so easy to get along with. He’s in some ways my easiest kid. And I look back at the photos and I just think, God, like I just struggled to connect with him for like three, four years. I don’t know.

But now he’s like my best little mate. He’s so sweet and he’s so gentle and kind and he’s so easy and he just wants to be with you. But it’s like a timing thing. Like that trigger for me used to really get me. And so sometimes I wonder if the timing can be really off, but for years.

Sarah:

Okay. I think, yeah, it’d be interesting to see. I’m really keen. Yeah. I might listen back in a few years and just go, how am I feeling now? And what’s my relationship like? And am I still beating myself up over not being the perfect mom?

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. I wonder if your expectations will lower too over time. My expectations have lowered by far over time. Like expecting kids to do this and that, expecting the house to look like—like my expectations are pretty low. Going on any kind of trip, it’s like, if I can have a few moments of happiness, maybe.

I think over time, your expectations lower as well, which will probably serve you well because you still do have high expectations on yourself.

Sarah:

Yeah. And that’s what I struggle with most, I think, about my ADHD is I can’t relax. I can’t. Yeah. I’m just that perfectionist who is struggling to perfect.

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. One final message before we go, because we got to wrap it up, even though I’d like to just talk for ages. With medication—just, this is obviously I’m not, not a health professional, I always do the disclaimer—but one thing I’ve found with medication is that yes, and you and I are similar in some ways with that drive and productivity and wanting to do things. The medication does alleviate a lot of the stress.

But what I’m trying to figure out at the moment is—and it’s a work in progress—is how to switch off, because I’m so used to doing the same things. That even though the ADHD drive might have gone a little bit, I still look for things to do because I’m trying to get away from the void that is left.

So I don’t know how to fill that yet because I’ve always filled that with more things and chaos. There’s nothing there. So what’s left? What do you do?

So be aware that’s there.

Sarah:

Yeah, definitely. And I can feel it. It’s Sunday night and I’m like, sit down. You’ve just put the kids to bed. You’ve got a big week ahead, sit down and do nothing.

But I’m like, nah, if I don’t do this, that means Monday and Tuesday are going to fall apart. And then the rest of the week is going to become a nightmare. And it’s just this constant effect.

And yeah, so that’s why I think I need to really keep tweaking my medication because at the moment it’s helping me focus on one thing at a time, which is good instead of my million different tabs going and just not achieving anything. But it’s not making me calm. It’s not helping me go, okay, you’ve done enough for today. Just chill.

Either that or I need a really good drink, I don’t know.

Jane McFadden:

And that might be a lifelong commitment for you. Yeah. Don’t put pressure on yourself. I’m not sure if I’ll have that solved in 10 years’ time. I’m not sure. I think that for me is a lifelong problem, or scenario, or whatever the word is—experience.

That for me is lifelong. And that might be your lifelong challenge too, because that’s very strong habits to break. And I think having kids is aggravating when you have your own list of what you want to do.

Sarah:

Yep. Yep.

Jane McFadden:

And with that, we will finish up. Thank you so much for your time, Sarah. You’ve been so vulnerable and so brave. I really, really appreciate it. And as I said, I think this episode is really going to impact a lot of people.

Sarah:

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And yeah, I’m excited to hear it.

Jane McFadden:

Awesome. If you’ve loved this episode, then please jump on, put a review up. What Sarah was saying was that she found this episode through Spotify search.

If you could leave me a review or follow, what we’ll do is that we’ll continue to drive up the ratings so other people in Australia and Aussie women can find the podcast if you’ve loved it. And there’s one thing you want to do to help me out, that would be the cracker.

So thank you so much. And we will catch you for next week.