Jane McFadden:
Welcome to the ADHD Mums Podcast, a safe place for everyday Australian mums to discuss their struggles with ADHD, motherhood and life. Welcome to the next episode of ADHD Mums. We have Caitlin here today. How are you, Caitlin?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I’m here. I made it.

Jane McFadden:
Excellent. We have just been talking about the shit week that I’ve been having. And the one thing I was really looking forward to was this podcast episode, because this is going to be another one in the I Hate Motherhood series. And we know that’s a play on words. It’s a bit of clickbait. Of course, we love our children, but sometimes we hate parts of it. Is that a pretty good overview, Caitlin?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
A hundred percent. It’s not all sunshine and daisies. And I’m sick of having to preface with I love my children, but…

Jane McFadden:
Totally. We don’t have to clarify that.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Totally.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, absolutely. I completely agree. We’ve clarified it once. We won’t clarify it again. Why don’t you start off, Caitlin, by telling us a little bit about yourself. I followed your journey at Holding Mama and I love the authenticity of it. Feel free to take the floor for a good five, 10 minutes. Whenever I get asked to do an intro, I just talk for 10 minutes. So feel free to give us a bit of an overview about who you are and why you’re here.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. Firstly, I apologize for the bobcat that’s in the background. Nothing screams an ADHD podcast like the mania of tradesmen outside. Yes. That is managing an impulse purchase of a pool.

That’s so on brand. Those who know me in real life will be like, yeah, that’s her. She’s the queen of chaos. So I’m Caitlin. I am a physio. I’m a mom to three wild—yes, they’re beautiful wild boys. And I have a husband, Gary, and we live in country New South Wales. I do a couple of days in clinic, seeing patients.

And when I’m not doing that, I work volunteer as an executive director and manager of operations for a charity. That’s my big passion project. And when I’m not doing those two things, I’m finding a new hyper-focus and spending all my money on starting seedlings that I forget to water and trying to keep up with my kids.

We’ve always lived in the country. So I feel like I always erred towards the experience of country moms, rural women. I know motherhood is a universal experience, but growing up in the country and traveling all around the country and living in regional places. I like to speak to things that country women experience and country moms experience and kind of be a voice for them because we don’t have the resources that a lot of Metro moms have. And we don’t have the chance to bump into people that will say, actually, this is what motherhood’s really like, or it’s totally normal to feel that, or we don’t, not everything’s sunshine and daisies. So yeah, that’s a big part of my passion as well.

And probably why I overshare as much as I do. What’s all that breaking the stigma? I suppose one thing I’ve become aware of recently is that you can’t say to your kids to embrace who you are without actually embracing yourself as well. So when I talk to my daughter, who’s neurodivergent about that, her and I have got different brains and we all talk about that, but I think one of the therapy tools around embracing that can only happen if you embrace yourself as a mother.

And I can’t tell her that in her room at night and then hide everywhere else. It’s obvious to her. So I think oversharing is such an important aspect of neurodivergence that we should actually embrace because what we’re doing is we’re talking about it more. And I used to have a problem with people saying that’s so ADHD or, Oh, I’m a bit autistic. And I get it. It’s offensive, but I’m also like, at least they’re talking about it.

At least the words are coming out of their mouth, because that’s actually the first step to have people know how to use the words appropriately is to actually have them use them at all. It’s part of that language. There shouldn’t be euphemisms for everything in appropriate terminology. I wonder if you get this too. I get so many times it’s, you’re so brave. You’re so vulnerable. I’m like, nah, just say it.

And I don’t know if that’s a neurodivergent thing. I’m starting to wonder if it is that just, you don’t have that same barrier, that fear of judgment, social norm, expectations kind of thing, but everyone’s like, you’re so brave to share it. I’m like, no, I just open my mouth and it comes out. Thank you for thinking that it is, but that’s just how it is. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
And I think it’s also, because you’re diagnosed aren’t you, Caitlin, can you share, because I was about to go into something and then I realized that we need to take a step back. So how was that diagnosis pathway for you? When did it happen and what were you diagnosed with?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I’m one of the really lucky ones. I know that a lot of mothers in particular, it’s through their kids being diagnosed that they then find out. The only reason I even contemplated it was actually because my sibling went down that path. They had been diagnosed with all of these postnatal issues and nothing ever quite felt right.

There was those struggles there. And so they went down the path and then I was like, well, hang on, like your brain’s like my brain. I’m like, we’re on the same wavelength. Maybe this is why my brain doesn’t stop. Maybe it’s not anxiety. Maybe that constant harm is something else. So I was really worried being from the country thinking there’s no chance I’m going to be able to access these referrals.

Thank God that the pandemic increased telehealth access because that meant that I was able to find a clinic that offered telehealth. I didn’t have to travel. Otherwise it would have been a three hour travel to even access a clinic. And I only had to wait six weeks, which is unheard of. Phenomenal. I’m so lucky that we had the capacity to go private because obviously that’s another factor.

We were able to financially manage that, but I’m so lucky because I feel for people that are navigating that process now and either don’t have a GP that hears them and validates their concerns, don’t have the option for access and then have to go on another wait list. There was another clinic that I contacted and they were like, the wait list is two years. I’m so thankful for my health background that I knew to push and prompt.

And I had that capacity. So it was only a six week wait. Then I was diagnosed with ADHD, which didn’t surprise me, but what did surprise me, but all made sense as well was autism. So I didn’t expect to have both, but also that psychiatrist saw my brain and my entire being like no one else ever had. And suddenly everything made sense, which was just mind blowing. So I’m so lucky that my diagnostic experience was incredibly positive.

I had already had a few friends that were querying it with themselves. So it was an open conversation I could have with friends. Some of the closer people in my network, it has taken a while. There was a lot more education that needed to happen there, but that was its own sort of struggle to navigate that. And there was a little bit of resentment that it’s not my job to educate everyone around me. If you want to be my support network, you also need to do a bit of self education and awareness.

But overall, that stepping into that world of diagnosis was really smooth and validating and just everything made sense.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. By the time this podcast episode comes out, I would have already disclosed, but this will be probably the first time, one of the first times for me on a podcast episode that I’ve also recently been diagnosed autistic, which has been, I’m still stuck in this imposter place basically where I think, am I or aren’t I? And it’s actually so refreshing to speak to you because I don’t think that you or I, air quotes everybody, would present very autistic.

And I’m actually really shocked that was picked up by a psychiatrist on a telehealth. That’s phenomenal. Should we disclose who that person is or do you think that’s not a good idea?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
A hundred percent. Yeah. This particular clinic I accessed was, it’s called Dockerteller. And so I also see they’re psychologists too. So they’re Sydney based for telehealth and have been phenomenal.

Jane McFadden:
A few people have referred, I actually nearly booked in with them. And then I pulled out last second because you never know the quality of telehealth. That’s really interesting. Okay. That’s great news. So how did that feel for you then hearing that? And how did you then go disclosing it? Like what was your journey then like from there?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
So there’s that initial, oh my God, everything makes sense. And I think part of it was that their job is to tease things apart and they have the questionnaires and things. But I think too, when I think as a physiotherapist, if someone comes into me and they’re like, I have this, and this is my belief and this is my experience. I go, okay, you’ve paid attention to this. You’ve thought about this. You’re not just coming in here willy nilly.

And I would imagine as a psychiatrist, when you present and say, these are my concerns, these the way it presents. And especially having that sort of, I don’t know about you, but having had ongoing mental health issues, that self-awareness really, I could tease it apart and not just go, I’m angry because I’m angry. I could say, actually I’m angry and my body feels like it’s going to explode because there’s these sounds and the kids are touching me.

And I think being able to pull that apart, it presents a clearer picture from the assessment perspective without them having to really probe. But it’s so interesting because he made sense. He was like, this is why you can pack up and move to Perth tomorrow and not be phased about it. But if your husband is home one minute after time is meant to be home, you’re going to throw rocks at the sun.

This is why you have that polarity of, because I was like, I never fit into this one because I’m not like super social. I hate being around people. I like this, can talk and talk. But if we were face to face, I’d be like, I’m really tired. So it explains like the introversion, but also the lack of like restraint and all that polarity.

And it was like, because you’ve got bits of this and bits of that, and you’re never going to be classic picture of autism. And you’re never going to be classic picture of ADHD because it’s all combined. And that’s why I’d never really flagged it before. And when I’d finished the consult, I called my husband, I was like, are you sitting down? And he’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay, are you ready? And he was like, are you pregnant? And I was like, no, I’m autistic.

Jane McFadden:
Are you pregnant?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
No, I’m autistic. And he’s like, oh, I was like, how is that more surprising than me being pregnant? It depends. It was so interesting. But then I found same as you, there’s that caveat. It was like, I was diagnosed, oh, but I’m only level one. Oh, I’m autistic, but I’m high functioning. But it’s only a little bit and it’s a, and I still like, this is going on 18 months and I am consciously trying to make the effort of not go, I don’t want to grade it because it’s the same as everything.

Like I wouldn’t expect anyone else to be, oh, I’m grade three. That’s the whole concept of the spectrum. It’s not linear. It’s that pie graph and it’s varies for everyone. So I try not to put that caveat on it. Oh, but, or, oh, because I’m a very self-deprecating person.

And so I will make fun of the fact, which I think some people don’t, that don’t realize there’s a diagnosis of like, whoa, that’s not, you don’t do that. But I’m like, no, I’m making fun of the fact. I do that with my husband. We made fun of that. He was talking about going on a cruise yesterday and I said, oh, I’m too autistic for that. And he was like, what was that?

But it makes sense. I don’t think I can be around all these people and I’ll probably throw myself off the boat.

Jane McFadden:
It’s so funny you say that. So out there, I’m sorry, but it also does answer a lot of my questions. Two things real quick that I think the listeners might be thinking. I wonder if this is true. Now, Caitlin would be the first person I’ve ever spoken to that has ever said that her psychiatrist has actually teased apart why.

Pretty much every other psychiatrist I’ve ever heard of just do the tick and flick and then just minimize whatever you’ve got. So I have experienced, it is an awful experience. Let’s name that psychiatrist because a lot of people probably thinking, I don’t know, there’s so many, how can I get in with that one? Who do you know? Of course you don’t know the name.

But you know what? Let me know the name later and I’m going to plop it in the episode notes. So that clinic though, my sibling also went through the same clinic and their experience was phenomenal. So that was the reason that was with a different practitioner.

I wonder if I can interview one of those psychiatrists. I’ll pay them for their time because they’re so great. I haven’t found, and you know what? I’m going to book Dr. Mustak.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Mustak. Okay. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
I went on telehealth for my diagnosis and it was not a pleasant experience. We won’t waste time talking about it. It’s just, yeah, it wasn’t great, but it’s also a very normal experience that most people do have.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
And was that relatively recently?

Jane McFadden:
I got medicated about a year ago. I do wonder if it was pure chance that I got in before the significant increase in assessments. And so it went from being, oh, there’s this really interesting trend. We’re seeing women now. And so it wasn’t as prevalent. It wasn’t the whole TikTok self diagnosis, which is valid in itself and a whole other discussion.

But I do wonder if it was just convenient timing and that there wasn’t that strain on the system because I was there. Oh, you know what? I think it’s great. And you know what? If you’ve had a good experience, power to you.

There’s so many places I want to go. That should be the norm. What I’m dying to know, because I haven’t actually interviewed many openly autistic and ADHD women. So there’s a new acronym called AUDHD, which would, how would you pronounce that? Or, or DHD?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
But then of course we need to be careful with the word ASD. Now I’m not really into that whole, what offends people and what doesn’t. I find it hard to keep up with, if I’m honest, because, and I think it might be an autistic thing. We have such good intentions. I’m like, I didn’t know I offended you by saying a different acronym because I was actually meaning it a really nice way, but I understand it’s offensive for some people.

There’s a lot of autistic people now that believe that ASD is offensive. So autism spectrum disorder, it is not a disorder. It is a different way of looking at the world. And it is not a disorder in illness or anything to be looked at like that. I do love that. So I’m just going to be using the word autistic, not ASD.

I haven’t interviewed many openly autistic women before on the podcast. How would you think that impacts you as a mother?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Oh, you know what? I actually was thinking about this in the lead up to having this conversation with you. And it was not last night, the night before, and I sobbed. I broke down into tears because as I put my kids to bed, and I’m probably crying now, but it’s fine. As I put my kids to bed, I was heartbroken because they were asleep and I was scrolling through videos. And one came up of my middle one, who’s now five when he was a baby.

And I didn’t remember. I don’t remember him being a baby. I can’t remember. There’s no, I can’t relate to it. Like I can see the photos and I’m like, oh, that’s Jude. But I don’t get that nostalgic feeling. And it’s almost disassociated. And whether that is, part of that is birth trauma, that I experienced birth trauma.

But part of that also is because my struggles really heightened after my second child, because you can manage with one, you can make those compensations. You can adjust your routine within reason. With that second kid, all of my coping strategies that I didn’t realize were coping strategies went out the window. And so I was really angry and sobbed to my husband because I was like, I’m really angry.

I didn’t get to be the mum that I could have been. And I’m really angry now that if I had known this sooner, would I remember what they were like as babies? And if I’d known this sooner, would I have been a better mum? And would I have not traumatized them with my autistic outbursts that I now know at meltdowns? I feel like I was almost robbed of that motherhood and being the best mum for them because I didn’t know. And it’s, I never get guilt in the moment.

It’s only in retrospect. And he’s, what are you talking about? You’re a beautiful mum. And I was like, and now that we’re at this calm place and I understand my differences and that it’s challenging now, but I think the hardest part is just my heartbreak. So I can’t redo that. And I know every mum feels that to an extent, but it is all such a blur when I reflect on from sort of 2019 through to now, my whole body tenses, because I just lived in that hyper stimulated, over-regulated, just intense period. So I think that’s for me in this current season, that’s the hardest thing.

I can make other adjustments. I can find ways to stimulate. I’ve got the therapy, I’ve got the meds. There’s this whole struggle now, but at this current time point, the hardest thing for me is the guilt and the resentment and the heartache that I struggled so much in those postpartum moments because I didn’t know and couldn’t be gentle with myself and couldn’t be gentle with my kids and the situation because I can see now all those triggers. It wasn’t me hating my kids. It wasn’t me hating life.

It was me not coping with that environment, with my needs.

Jane McFadden:
I’ve never heard anyone say anything that resonates with my experience from 2019 onwards. It’s like a cold shiver goes down the back of my spine. I never want to throw around the word PTSD, but I just feel completely traumatised from like least two and a half, three years of my life. I look back and have like, how the fuck did I do it? And not drive off a bridge. Not that wasn’t on the cards at times. Did you have your kids close together? Like how?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
There’s two years between each kid. So I had Colby was in 2016, Jude was 2018 and then Banjo was start of 2021. So they were all really close in age as well.

Jane McFadden:
I feel like you and I have lived the same life.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Oh, it’s so intense. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
I had three under three and a half at one point, very similar. And it was like complete mayhem. And they are all neurodiverse, which we didn’t know at the time. And I just looked around like, why is everybody else coping? And you could go to the mother’s groups. And I didn’t realise probably because I’m autistic that people don’t talk really.

I assumed wrongly that when you go to a mother’s group, you actually talk about real stuff. I didn’t realise, oh, this is just where you go and show your best self. I didn’t know that was happening. So I was assuming that everybody was actually like that. That was what I was thinking. I was like, wow.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
And now I look around and when you see the really over the top play, like play school mums, I look at it and go, they probably yell at their kid at home. And this is them over the top, nice out and about. Like I have to have that running. Cause I think they can’t be like that all the time because it just felt so not authentic.

Jane McFadden:
Who are these people? People live like that. And then you click on social media. That’s what you’re seeing. And then you’re going, well, something’s wrong with me because I’m actually struggling big time. Do you feel like that puts an increased pressure on you to fit that mould as well?

In that we already feel like we have to mask to an extent anyway. And I find, and I only realised this once I was diagnosed that I would often be a different person with, or at the core of it, it was always myself, but the way I would talk or the way that I would bring, it did differ a little bit. So I fit in with whichever sort of group that I was in. And that’s really hard when you have to do that with these people that are, but then it’s challenging your internal beliefs and values and experiences.

I just didn’t go to mum’s groups, which is so hard because that’s, I’m such a big advocate for it now because I can see the power in connection, but it’s gotta be honest, true connection, like that real vulnerable, truthful. You don’t have to go in spilling everything, but I think you have to be receptive and you have to just be your true self. If you don’t have to go, I’m having a shit day because, but you can go, actually, I’m not really feeling it today. I’m just going to sit in the back.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. It’s a funny one. I used to call myself a mother’s group slut was what I used to call myself because I moved to an area. I met my husband. I didn’t know anyone. And my mum had recently passed away when I met my husband.

So I was in a really healing, weird space and we got pregnant and it was a great turning point in my life that meeting my husband because I’d never been in a relationship before, like properly. I’ve had boyfriends, but properly living with somebody, this is actually an adult relationship where you can’t just break up and hide if you have a fight. Cause that’s what I’d previously been in, or maybe what I thought was in a relationship.

And maybe I didn’t realise that they didn’t know we’re in a relationship, which again, I’ve actually realised I’m quite autistic dating. I can’t even believe I got married really. My husband and I laugh about it now because I was just the worst person at dating.

So I used to call myself a mother’s group slut. And what I used to do is I worked out that I didn’t really like many people. And so I’d be like, I could entertain some weird shit about someone’s like how they’ve made their own baby food over here, or I could go over here. And what I would do is I would tell an inappropriate story on purpose to see what the reaction would be. And I would find that people would mainly leave the area and they’d be like, that woman’s cooked. She’s too much.

She obviously doesn’t realise that we’re just talking about pretend problems, right? I’ll just unload a good one. And my best friend, who probably listens to this podcast, I met at one of those mother’s groups and she was at the first mother’s group that I walked into. And she actually told the story that my husband and I recently got, we had an actual wedding.

So we’ve been married for 10 years, but because my parents weren’t alive, I wanted to do a proper wedding when I felt ready, which was 10 years later, because that’s how long it takes to heal from grief, which I’m still, I was still, I still cried on the day multiple times. Anyway, side story. But the point is I walked into this mother’s group, I was late, dishevelled, my baby wouldn’t stop crying.

And then the midwife was like telling me I wasn’t breastfeeding her right. And she’s telling me I wasn’t doing it right. So I said to her, you have a go then, because I was pretty fucked off. So then she took my baby. And then what do you know, the baby wouldn’t do anything she wanted either. And then she was like, oh, there’s something wrong with that baby and just handed it back to me.

And I’m like, she’s always like that. Anyway, God, I know. And anyway, we had this just horrendous mother’s group experience. And I met, my best friend was the one who told this inappropriate story about how she was breastfeeding. She had to go to work in Brisbane. She got a pump and how she had to hand express into a sink at work.

And I was down for that story. And we connected hard. And then we pretty much burnt that group and left. And she taught me the group of mother’s group slutting where, cause I just moved to the area. I just walked, let’s go around and try and find other inappropriate neurodivergent women that I didn’t know I was neurodivergent to try to connect with, to actually talk about some real shit. And I think that’s probably the only real way that I like a mother’s group.

Because I think if you’re really authentic, people love you or they don’t.

Jane McFadden:
It’s the solidarity in it too, where they might not want to divulge to the same extent that we’re happy to, but they know that if they needed to share something, we’d be like, yeah, that’s shit. Or fuck yeah, that’s awesome. It’s that knowing that safety, which is just mindful. It must be really hard for people that don’t get that. And again, is it that neurodivergent trait that we just don’t care what people think? Like I’m never feared of what people think of me.

I’m convinced they don’t like me, which is a whole other thing, but it’s never, they think you’re too much. It’s never that you shouldn’t have said that was inappropriate. It’s just, that’s what it is.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I only went to one and Gary pretty much dropped me off and was like, you’re going to be here for the next hour. The midwife has told you needed to do it. And everyone’s like, Oh, I hate those like icebreaker. And they were like, come up with the name. And my name’s Sally and I’m sweet. And this is Clancy and he’s cute.

And I had a beautiful water birth thing. And then I orgasmed at the same time. I don’t, you know what, in my mother’s group, I actually missed the intro.

Jane McFadden:
So I didn’t know that you were supposed to do fake intros. So then I sat down late cause I was sweating and it was sunshine coast. Like, Oh, what’s your daughter’s name? And how is your birth and blah, blah, blah. This is literally what I said. I said, Hi, my name is Jane. My baby’s four weeks old. I don’t really know what her name is yet. I think it’s going to be Georgie, but it might be Gigi, but I don’t really know. Maybe it’s Gigi.

So then I started debating about what the name should be. And then they’re like, how is your birth? I was like, Oh, really bad. I nearly died. And then I went into this long story of this traumatic birth that I’d had. Right. And then anyway, at the end of this, everyone looked at me and I thought, Oh shit, I think I said too much. And then my best friend was looking at me like, Oh shit, it’s wet there. Sorry. Back to your experience.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
It’s so funny. No similar thing. I was like, I’m Caitlin and I hated pregnancy and I spewed the whole time. And this is my kid and I feel good. Now I’m not spewing my guts up. And I also got constipated the whole time. And I’m pretty sure my butthole is broken and I have fractured teeth. They were like, what do you mean you spewed? Like I had morning sickness.

I was like, no, I heaved my guts up and wet myself 40 times a day for nine months and had to have medication that cost a hundred bucks a week. And I was met, I did hypnobirthing and then I screamed so hard. I scared another lady out of labor. And now we’re here because my husband dropped me off.

Jane McFadden:
Oh my God. I hope it focused on hypnobirthing so hard to the extent these people don’t believe me that actually aren’t neurodivergent to the extent that I actually had no idea what to do with my baby when they were right. And I thought about birth it. And then everyone said to me, your natural instincts will take over. And I was like, Oh no, actually I don’t have any. And I didn’t even know if she was supposed to nap or anything.

So then you’re like, Oh shit. When did people tell you supposed to sleep this child? Cause my mom had passed away. I didn’t have anyone to ask.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Oh, that’s so hectic. And then if someone was like, Oh, I had to rock my baby to sleep. And I was like, Oh, what do you mean you’re supposed to do that? Don’t they just go to sleep? Like, no, babies don’t go to sleep on their own. And I was like, that makes sense why my baby doesn’t sleep. And she cries all day.

Jane McFadden:
There’s no support. They’ll see you a million times while you’re pregnant and there’s nothing. And I don’t know whether it’s not a dig at that whole calm birth hypnobirth, because I think it is great. And I think the power, there’s a lot of those tools that I still use, especially in my emergency C-section. And I think the skills that are there, I just wish the whole thing was don’t listen to someone’s traumatic birth. Don’t let anyone tell you a negative story about birth. And it may have changed now, but I don’t think that’s setting people up for positive experiences or to be able to have the skills to navigate those experiences.

Cause I thought I failed because I had gas. I was like, that’s not hit my birth. I got in the bath, couldn’t stand it, got out of the bath. Oh, I’ve just done this course and I paid this money and I’ve told everyone I’m having that. I made a birth plan and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. I didn’t do any of it.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I totally hear you. And then maybe you’re better off with a low expectation. I go into everything with a low expectation because I probably should have gone in there and thought don’t die and don’t have your baby die and anything else as a win. Yeah. It’s probably should have been in rather than this glammed up orgasmic hypno birthing experience I thought I was going to have. So hard.

Jane McFadden:
Let’s switch back. So what parts of motherhood would you enjoy and what parts do you find the hardest?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
The hardest is that finding that balance between my autistic self needing the routine and the structure and the time, like it’s eight, we need to be out the door at eight and trying to get kids to comply with that need for that type A stuff, the need for control and cleanliness and order and trying to get three kids to do that in a tiny house is next to impossible anyway. And then also having that spontaneity and that impulsivity and being like, fuck yeah, let’s go somewhere for the weekend and then having to juggle the two of those.

And then I think the other struggle too, is that we don’t have any confirmation and we haven’t gone down that with our kids, but there are very much traits I see in them that are parts of the traits that I experience. And so it’s having those traits challenge you when one questions that do this task now, it is time. And then I, but why I don’t want to. So then your ADHD self is yeah, I get that. I’d want to keep playing the game too. But then your autistic self is, I said it needs to happen now and it needs to happen now because all these other things need to happen.

Navigating all of that and then trying to also give them the support that you didn’t have because you didn’t know as if that mental load isn’t hectic enough already, you’re like constantly giving yourself therapy and looking at strategies. But then I think it’s magic when you make that connection. So our middle one, it has very typical ADHD boy symptoms, big emotions, massive, can’t regulate.

And so then every now and then we’ll have this breakthrough where he’ll go from, and a lot of people that follow me have seen this where he’ll have these meltdowns and punches walls and slams doors and frames break. And it’s really intense where he’ll go, squeeze me, I’m angry. And you go, wow, we’ve managed to go from having these intense meltdowns to you going, you’re my safe spot. I like that pressure. I can recognize that I’m angry. And I’m like, fuck, we did that.

Like we figured that out together. No one else taught you that. It was us learning and me learning what I need and trying to give that to you. That’s, it’s so special.

Jane McFadden:
It’s so wonderful when those moments happen because they’re far and few between.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
You got to celebrate the wins actually. You know what? It’s so good when they can start to do that. My six year old Gus, he’s a bit of, I don’t even know how to describe him. He’s antagonist. Yep. So of course I love that kid deeply. He can be quite difficult. And yesterday he asked me for a drink.

I was obviously doing something with someone else and my husband jumped in and said, I’ll get you a drink mate. Very nice. And he poured it exactly what he wanted. Gus said, I’m not drinking that because mum didn’t pour it. And he just completely lost his shit. And then anyway, my husband was like, well, I’m not pouring you another one.

And then he’s like, and don’t you pour him one either to me because you’re like, you’ve got to be united, right? If I don’t re-pour the drink, he was like, I just helped him and now he won’t drink it. And it was very frustrating. It was, it’s busy and you’re just like over it’s the end of the day and he’s asking for a drink.

Anyway, he, of course Gus runs up to his room crying as they all do. Anyway. And I gave it a few minutes and I went in and I was like, mate, are you all right? Do you need a hug? And gave me a hug and he just started crying and he goes, I just wanted you to pour it because I wanted to talk to you and I wanted to be with you and I didn’t really want to drink.

I just wanted you to, you basically wanted me, you wanted to have that moment of me going, you’re right, buddy. Just that little micro moment when he was looking for, but it was nice that he could actually say it instead of.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
That’s massive.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. I actually was really thought, holy shit. And it was great to be able to tell my hubby that because he actually got it was like, Oh, it wasn’t really about the drink.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. He’s not trying to challenge me. He’s not trying to push boundaries or kick back. There was an underlying. Yeah. Need for connection that he asked for a drink, wanting his mummy to get it for him. But it’s lovely when they have that self-awareness. Yeah. It’s so special, but so hard to teach.

And I think we like the effort that it takes to put into that. Everyone’s there’s the whole parenting and trauma, this and trauma, that, and that’s all well and good. And you can say that you’re a gentle parent and here darling, let’s, that’s not how it goes. If your kids are like that power to you, that’s great. I love that that’s your experience. My kids, they’re Donnie Thornberry times three.

They’re not sitting there going, darling, we don’t do that. Yeah. No, they’re not hearing.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. No. And plus as well, sometimes I think kids that are neurodiverse lack the cues. So particularly my son, Billy, who he comes across naughty, right? People that don’t know him would say he’s naughty. Yeah. I don’t believe he’s naughty. I think he’s incredibly curious. Yeah. Incredibly curious. And he loves to know where the line is. So how does he find out where the line is? He pushes the buttons. Yeah.

If I say to him, mate, don’t do that. He wants to know what will happen. He’s a very curious little character, but he often won’t read the cues. So he doesn’t know anything between, oh buddy, come on, not now, to you have escalated beyond. You’ve told him 50 times, you’re ready to lose it. He actually doesn’t know.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. I can’t sense where that’s going. And that means you can’t really go, Hey buddy, come over here. He doesn’t, that doesn’t mean anything to him.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. It’s cause and effect.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
And I don’t know if I had this conversation with someone the other day and I don’t know if there’s any evidence behind it, but I find that anecdotally boys are so cause and effect. You can’t explain a rationale to them. You can’t make them forward think they need to do this. Oh, and that happens. You can’t warn them that it’s going to, they need to do it. They need to touch the electric fence and get, Oh, that is on.

Jane McFadden:
You can tell him. I’m like, but he said, how do you know? I think it’s a great point. So what made you decide to open your Instagram page and start to really disclose this stuff a bit more openly? Like how did that look for you?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
So it was funny. I only actually started the Instagram page when I was pregnant with Jude in 2018 to be like, my brain’s going to turn to mush. Cause I’ve gone from working full-time and I can manage fulltime with a kid. And I need to like, this is going to keep my physio brain running and I can do evidence-based stuff because there’s all these fitness moms doing mini half squats and being like, get your baby pooch gone.

And I’m like, no, this is rehab. And so I was like, that was my initial approach. And I was like, here’s some evidence-based stuff rather than having a date smoothie because someone said, so there’s, here’s an empirical evidence that says this is, there’s actually a link or rather than someone telling you to smoo like a cow, cause it brings on some things that actually relate. So it was started all with that. And I clear as day, remember Jude must’ve been maybe six months old. And I was sitting in a green armchair in his nursery, rocking him.

And he just wouldn’t sleep. He was not asleep at any way. And he was crying and he’d fed every 40 minutes and it just wouldn’t work. And my husband was at work and he’s in the pit. So you can’t call him when he’s at work. My family were 500 Ks away. I didn’t have a friend, like a mom friend. I had two beautiful best friends, but they weren’t in that. They didn’t get it.

They just didn’t have that lived experience. And so I was like, so I opened my phone and I was like, I am not okay today. This is shit. I’m bouncing this kid and he will not sleep. And I had tears running down my face and he had tears running down his face. And I was like, if you’re having a shit day too, you’re not alone. I’m feeling shit. I want you to tell me when you’re feeling shit so we can be in it together. And from that, I just couldn’t believe the amount of people that went, actually, I’m having really shit day too.

I had a day like this last week and I’m so sorry that you know it. And then it was never for an attention. That was my like cathartic video diary kind of thing. And then it was people sending messages and calls and a lady that I had barely known dropped around with all this bakery stuff. And she was like, I’m sorry, you’re having a shit day. Just with small town, didn’t even message my address, just showed up.

And I was like, this is powerful. And being someone that never ever asked for help, like fierce, independent, autistic woman, you do things my way. I don’t ask for help. I was like, oh my God, this is. And so then it just went on from there. And so it became less and less about physio. I still have that. I like to share my knowledge because I forget how lucky I am to have that knowledge. But it got more and more about, actually, this is motherhood because I keep seeing these beautiful pages and people that love their kids, but this is fucking hard.

And I just screamed at my three-year-old because he spilled a cup of water. And that’s probably not normal, but is that just me? Like, why am I having this experience when everyone else seems to be so okay? So then it just, yeah, the oversharing just snowballed from there. So when I had this experience and this diagnosis, I was like, this is a part of my life. Why wouldn’t I share it too?

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, absolutely. And I assume that your kids would be neurodiverse. So you are paving the way for people to talk about neurodiversity. And I think neurodiversity is coming to a place where there’s, and COVID has had some positives and I know that it’s fucked a lot of people too. So I don’t want to discredit that, but I think it’s had some positives in that I think the more flexible arrangements with work have become more available, telehealth, and there’s a lot of online booking systems that never existed before. And it makes it easier for autistic people and neurodivergence just generally to participate in the world in different, more flexible ways.

I don’t want to get onto my high horse about schooling, but I don’t think schooling’s really progressed. But I think outside of schooling, after you finish school, I think that has changed, which makes me wonder by school still behaving the way that it does. But anyway, because I don’t think your life should start when you finish school, even though for a lot of neurodivergent women, it does. You’ve built all of your beliefs and expectations and understandings and coping strategies throughout that period. And you finally got freedom, right? Like I remember working remotely young. I was one of the only people that anybody knew that worked remotely because I was like, I’m just going to negotiate this.

And I just asked them and they did it. And it was real living to me. And people were like, what do you mean? Where do you work? And how does it work? And I was like, I just work on a commission and I know that I’m good at my job. So I work on commission and I work on the road and I drove around in my car and lived in a tent. I know it sounds really weird, but the price of rent in Sydney, house sharing at that time was so expensive. I had to live in a big group house.

I actually preferred living in a tent alone, sleeping on the beach, which is probably not very safe for a young woman in her twenties, than living in that confined environment energetically. It didn’t feel right to me. It doesn’t feel safe.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I had a similar experience when I went to uni in Sydney. I had to do the share house thing. I moved there with the boyfriend that was the love of my life. Turned out he was incredibly awful and kicked me out. And I had to find flatmate.com, little room that you could hold yourself in that kind of felt safe, but not really. Because as soon as you stepped out of that room, the kitchen wasn’t yours.

The bathroom wasn’t yours. There’s these people and you can’t anticipate what they’re going to be like, who’s going to be there. It was like people coming in and out. It doesn’t feel nice. No.

Jane McFadden:
And I think, I don’t know how old you are. I think you’d be a similar age.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I’m 37.

Jane McFadden:
Yep. Yeah. It was before, like now I think with devices, with COVID it was funny because when COVID hit, I was like, I can’t even imagine house sharing at the moment. That would fuck me up. But actually because people were like iPads, laptops, everybody’s got a device, they actually live in their own bedroom. Whereas when I was flat sharing and doing that stuff, we had one TV and some DVDs and everyone had to watch it together. And if anyone had a boyfriend, you were stuck with them as well.

And your bedroom, you just slept in. Whereas now I think things are a bit more insular. I find, but then I’m also like, I liked living in the room. I didn’t have to. So I would literally, it was in my room. I would run to go and dance. I was at the gym. So everything to not be there, which I think is a sign in itself.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
I feel like I’m going to be less of an imposter autistic woman after speaking to you, because everything is saying, yeah, me too. Okay. So we’ve had similar struggles. Would there be anything that you feel like you could share to people who are listening to this that might be in your position in 2019 or 2018? Cause we’ve gone a little bit beyond it now, but what, is there anything that you can share when you are overwhelmed, you’re done, you’re having a bad day. It’s all just too much and you just don’t know what to do. Is there any tips that you can share around that?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
I think the hardest thing for me was not verbalizing how I was feeling until it was at crisis point. So I couldn’t throughout the day go, actually, I’m feeling really overwhelmed and I need to pull back or can I get someone to help me with this a little bit? Because it’s all feeling too much. And whether that was because I didn’t have the support network and my husband worked 14 hour days. But I think if I had that capacity to have a check-in and go, guys, I’m actually feeling not great.

I may not be able to put my finger on it, but this is where I’m at. My sister and I do this thing where we text each other and say, FJ, which is, are my feelings justified? And so as soon as someone sends that, you’ve got to be on for the next 10 minutes and you go, yeah, that does suck. Or, okay, do we need to come up with a strategy and how you can manage that? So having that little check-in, it’s hard because so much of it is that, that self-awareness and that understanding, but having support.

And it’s really hard because I get it that I’m obviously very passionate about building the village, but then you become a mum, you’re like, well, where’s this village that everyone talks about? So it’s hard because you need to put in the effort to make that village. So on those days where you are feeling okay, if you can make those connections so that you can make SOS phone call or text someone and be like, kids help now. Understanding that you aren’t alone in your experience and that’s not to invalidate it or diminish it, but know that you’re not a bad mum for feeling what you’re feeling.

You’re not a bad wife for yelling at your husband. You’re not a horrible woman for not wanting to dote on your kids and love them with every inch of your soul. That’s an experience that many women have. And you’re definitely not alone in that. And if you can find someone that resonates with and they can validate it, a lot of the times it’s just having someone go, I get that. I get it. And that’s awful.

Obviously the crisis support in, I utilized Panda who had an online text support because I was never in the mindset base to be able to call someone or as often late at night or when I’m juggling kids. So seeing what supports are there in that, I liked that it was like a chat and there’s a few different peer support programs for mental health and particular things that are really helpful.

Jane McFadden:
I might have to put that in the episode notes. It was Panda.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
I found Panda really helpful for myself. There’s so many different wonderful ones, but from my personal experience, that was quite helpful in that. You can’t book a GP appointment in when it’s 3am in the morning and you’re noticing and going, Oh shit, I need to get some help. Having antidepressants doesn’t make you a bad mom. It’s okay if you need them, that’s totally fine. No one is going to take your kids off you for disclosing that you’re having a hard time.

You can link into your GP, community health nurse, child, family, midwife, any of those sorts of things, but be gentle with yourself. You’re doing so much and you’ve found yourself in motherhood and that is a change, whether it’s your first or 12th time. Matricence is different every time and matricence is a genuine, valid experience that is physiological and psychological and no one’s given you the tools to navigate this. You’re doing it on your own while also having dependents. That’s intense.

Dr. Sophie Brock is incredible with understanding the load of motherhood in society and from a sociology perspective. There’s an OT that I follow who’s really great as well. She’s a maternal OT. Those skills to navigate matricence. The awareness is definitely increasing. I think it’s just depends on which bubble you’re in. Yeah. And who you connect with, but maybe you could send me those notes because there’ll be people listening that will be like, can you say that again? I don’t have a pen. Oh my God, I’m washing up.

Relax everybody. We’re going to put it in the episode notes or we don’t and everyone’s like, come on. That’s okay. We’re not going to forget that there’s two of us here.

Is there anything that we can do to find more joy? The reason that this I Hate Motherhood series came out was because I spoke to a friend when we went ten pin bowling, which was a shit show, right? Anyway, we were there and my friend was heavily pregnant and she’s actually had two kids pass away. She’s got one remaining from a genetic condition and you just meet those women that you’re like, I don’t know how she’s still upright living and breathing and she’s had to go through IVF to have another baby and she’s an absolute hero, right? I honestly don’t even know how she does it.

She’s had such a hard run. She was heavily pregnant with her fourth child, but she’s only got one living. And she said to me, I just want to enjoy all the moments. I want to breathe in. I want to really, I feel like I was impatient and I was this and I was that with the other ones. I want to really, I’ve wanted this baby so long and it doesn’t have the genetic condition and I just want to be with the baby.

I was like, let’s just chill for a second and remember that’s actually gonna be really hard to do. And I don’t want you to beat yourself up when you have your beloved baby finally arrived that you’ve worked so hard to get. And actually you’re on a phone a bit and you’re actually up all night and this is actually your fourth pregnancy, your fourth baby, your fourth newborn and you’re now 40 and you’re actually really tired. Let’s just chill for a second and not put too much pressure on it.

And that kind of made me reflect. She said, how much of motherhood do you enjoy? And I said, oh, I’m on a 30 percenter. And I put the Instagram story up that I was on a 30 percent. What percentage are you on? And I got, I reckon I might’ve got a thousand replies. And there was at least six people that I had to DM. This is lifeline. And the rest of them were under 40 percent. Most people were under 10.

It was pretty much no one was over 50, 60 percent. And that’s what kind of brought on the series. So I suppose, because I wanted everybody to know it’s okay not to enjoy it all the time. What percentage of motherhood do you think you enjoy at the moment?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
At the moment, I would say we’re at a solid 25 on a good day and it’s really hard because motherhood is so tangled in our lives. And it’s what’s mothering, what’s motherhood, what’s my life. And at the moment, like 25 on a good day, shit is feeling heavy at the minute. And it’s because how many times can you ask someone to brush their teeth? And how many times can you say we need to be at the door every single morning? How many times can you have the same argument over the same things as though life changes every day?

And I think all those other parts of my life spill into motherhood, obviously, because it’s one big bundle. But yeah, some days it’s great and I love it. And we’re just coming off of my husband having a week at work. So it’s always like 10 percent at the end of his week at work. When he gets home, I’m like, oh, you can do this with support. This is manageable.

But yeah, it’s not. I actually said to my husband just this week when we were fighting the kids to bed and it was 10 o’clock, I said, I don’t want to be mom anymore. I just don’t want to be responsible for doing these things. This isn’t fun. I hate that I’m angry. I hate that I’m not soft and caring and I used to be fun and I used to be funny and all these things.

But the most interesting thing that I’ve noticed with my engagement interactions on social media is that by an incredible amount, the communication and connection and interaction is drastically greater when I’m in a shit phase as opposed to when I’m in a phase where I’m really loving motherhood, which is really interesting. And I don’t know whether it’s a sympathy thing, but I notice a massive difference in my content being reshared, people interacting, the DMs when I’m in that shit bit of motherhood and I’m not enjoying it. And I don’t know whether it’s sympathy or a pity or if it’s that so many others are feeling the same thing. It’s really interesting.

Jane McFadden:
I reckon it’s relatability. I reckon when you’re authentically feeling it and you share that, I think that’s what would take the traction. Yeah. You can see when somebody’s actually relatable versus they’re just repeating something someone else did and they want to get it shared. Like you can see when it’s something actually real.

Which is so interesting. That’s super interesting. I know I said I wouldn’t ask you any more questions, but I can’t help it. How do you think the play between your autistic self and your ADHD self fools you with motherhood?

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
It’s a shit show to be honest, really. I think there’s parts where it thrives and that part of the preparation, the autistic traits of the control and eating preparation and structure and order means that like I have the kids’ lunches made for a week. I have, there’s a freezer full of baked goods. It’s always there. Every item of clothing is meticulously folded and in the perfect spot so that kids can clearly see and access it themselves. And that part runs great.

But the challenging part of that is that kids don’t run to a program. They do what they do. So that’s the best part and the really challenging part. And then the ADHD part is that novelty and that total flexibility and adaptability that can be really great. So when shit hits the fan, we had a day earlier in the week where Benjo couldn’t go to daycare and I had a full day of patients and Gaz was at work and it’s like, Oh, we’ll just make it work. So that adaptability and that spontaneity that’s there, but then that detracts from the routine.

So it’s like this constant balance of do we do the fun and spontaneous things and meet the kids where they’re at? Or do we actually need the structure? Because that’s where I thrive best. And then we’ll do the fun things that spark my ADHD interest in these social things and these experiences and adventures. But then I need a good couple of days to then introvert and decompress and regulate after that.

So it’s a constant hopping between the two. And it depends on which of the kids is peaking at that point either. Cause I’ve got one that’s very much routine, justice, fairness, order, my way or no way. Then I’ve got one that is just massive emotions and that spontaneity and there’s no reasoning. And then I have one that’s two and is off his chops. So it depends which one’s peaking at which day as to which strengths I can draw on.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And then there’s that always that pull off because since being medicated for ADHD, I don’t do a lot of that spontaneous stuff I used to do. I don’t do, Oh wow, I saw this on luxury escapes. It’s non-refundable. Let’s go. I asked nobody and then booked it. I haven’t been doing that as much. And then I’m just like so bored. But then I also think, can I actually cope? Or do I want to do the things? Is it the hope of the holiday that’s fun? And then is it the actual holiday that I don’t want? Cause you get there and it’s so overwhelming.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah.

Jane McFadden:
And it’s just so much to get ready for and they do my head in there and then I’m so bored. That’s the hard thing. I think you go, I just need to withdraw and do nothing. But doing nothing is terrifying. Can’t do it. Can’t make it physically uneasy. There’s nothing more terrifying than not doing anything.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s terrible. I actually find that terrifying. It’s like a black hole. It’s like what will happen if I sit here and do nothing? My feelings might come and get me. I might have to express something. The silence is deafening.

Jane McFadden:
That, so then I’ll go and open my laptop and do some work and find a problem that I can fix. Yeah. And then, yeah, look, we all know we need to sit in our feelings, but I don’t want to do that. It’s just that spontaneity isn’t there. And if sitting there, then you get the restlessness and that stuck.

And that’s the executive functioning as well. Whereas like your brain’s going do it. And you’re like, no, but my body needs to rest. And I just need to just chill out because I’m starting a thousand different things and getting none of them done. And then that misses triggering, but I’m getting the dopamine, but then it’s triggering my autistic traits. And it’s just this like massive mishmash.

It’s so hard. So you just get that freeze where you’re like, my body’s not doing anything, but my mind’s racing. And then you get cranky and then you’re snappy. And then it rolls over into the kids. And it’s not just about you. It’s about the whole family.

And it’s so much more than just, okay, do these strategies for you. That’s great. But I’ve got to go and pick three kids up from school. I can’t do that with three kids who are also having their own meltdowns.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. Cause everyone else is on their own journey. So even if you’re feeling good and you decide that you want to go on a day trip somewhere, someone else actually just really needs to withdraw that day. So, and then you probably, if you take the team analogy, you’re only as strong as your weakest player, like on that day. If you’ve got a two-year-old, you’re probably going to be doing some pretty simple things for a long time because they need to sleep.

They can’t cope with much. They can’t walk anywhere, can’t carry anything. I think as well, sometimes for an ADHD mom or an AUDHD mom or autistic mom, whatever it is, neurodivergent mom, it’s my kids actually aren’t at the place I thought they’d be. And then the grief from that about that’s not the life I thought I’d be living. And I think that’s okay to talk about because there’s a lot of people that are dealing with that.

Like I thought I would have this gender child that was going to play volleyball like I did at state level. Actually, they’re a boy and they’re completely uncoordinated and they just want to play Minecraft.

Jane McFadden:
So hard. And how much of that is that expectation just because your lived experience is all to be true. So you think that to be a kid, you do. I did extra reading. I was identified as a genius when I was a child. What do you mean my kid’s not top of the class? What do you mean my kid’s not doing all of this sport? And I never have that pressure, that expectation. I’ve never said to them do better or I’m worried about, but it was just that it’s so interesting that our lived experience shapes what you expect to happen. But it’s so varied.

Yeah. And I think a lot of the time that happens with diagnosis too. These people probably aren’t on this podcast, but there of course are teachers will talk about the most difficult child to teach would be a child that is neurodivergent, but he’s undiagnosed and the parents are not on board. They can deal with diagnosed children. They can deal with their parents. They can find strategies. That’s actually, you can work towards something.

But a lot of people in my mind, the people that I’ve seen will say, I’ve heard all of that. And I know there’s been flags, I’ve had conversations, but I do that. I’m fine. I think that’s not true. I think you’re probably not wanting to look at yourself.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Yeah. And it would be, I do feel for parents that I think my situation is quite unique and that I found out first. And so then that shapes my experience with the kids. I think it would be quite different if it was the other way and finding out with the Oh, whoa, hang on. Now I need to look at myself. I think I’m quite fortunate in that it was my own selfdiscovery and then that can trickle down. It would be really hard to find out blindsided from having your child diagnosed and then yourself.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. That kind of, yeah. I experienced that one where my children and they listed out everything and then pointed at me and I was like, oh, oh wow, this is happening really quick. We weren’t coming in here to talk about me. Yeah. I just wanted you to do what I told you to do. Not what you think you’re doing.

We’re going to wrap it up. Thank you so much for your time. It has been a pleasure. I know that this is going to be a really well-received episode. Thank you for your authenticity and your genuine ability to convey a story. I was really captivated. And if you’d like to follow Caitlin, I’m going to leave all of her details in the episode notes with all of those show notes that we spoke about.

And thank you so much, Caitlin.

Kaitlyn Faulkner:
Thanks for having me. The key message here is you are not alone.

Jane McFadden:
Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram or head over and join our amazing ADHD Mums podcast Facebook community. Everything you do matters and helps to spread the word about what neurodiversity in females looks like.