Episode 85 – Real Tools for Real Rage (Mum Rage Part 2)Real Tools for Real Rage (Mum Rage Part 2)

Jane McFadden:

Hello and welcome to ADHD Mums. Today we have Dr. Jacinta Thompson. How are you?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

I’m good. Thanks for having me back to discuss part two.

Jane McFadden:

Awesome. So if you haven’t listened, go back to part one. That is the episode on mum rage, what it is, how it builds. And part two, which is today, is about the strategies that we can use practically in our everyday life to, I would never say master mum rage, but maybe cope with it because it’s not about getting rid of anger or never feeling rage. As we talked about last episode, they are perfectly natural, normal human experiences. So it’s about learning to recognize and accept these feelings and integrate skills and strategies to be able to regulate the intensity of it as they show up. Awesome. Okay, great.

Well, we are not going to jump into who Jacinta is because we did that in the first part, and I’m sure that everybody’s going to listen to that episode. Let’s jump straight into the practical strategies because I am personally really excited to find out. So Jacinta, when we’re looking at strategies and things that we can be doing, what would be some strategies that you think might be helpful here?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Obviously the strategies are going to be different for everyone. And so I’m speaking in generalized terms for what might be helpful here. One of the simplest strategies that I think we almost don’t give ourselves permission to do is to put ourselves in timeout. If we’re climbing the mortar, like we talked about last episode, if we’re at, you know, going to a seven, an eight, a nine, there’s a part of me that knows you’re right on the edge of absolutely, you know, losing your mind or blowing your top, then it’s a really healthy thing for everyone.

If you can just step outside for a few minutes, if you can put your baby in the cot, baby’s safe, or set your toddler up in front of the TV, if that’s going to keep them occupied for a few minutes, go outside, go to a private space. If you need to lock yourself in the bathroom and do the scroll or take some deep breaths or splash some cold water on your face or send a vent to one of your mum friends, whatever you need to do, that’s just going to bring you from that 9.9, you’re back down to a nine, back down to an eight. Again, it’s just doing what you need to do to give yourself some wiggle room to then re-enter that stressful space and put some other strategies in place.

We can’t really do high order sort of cognitive type strategies if we’re at a hundred out of a hundred or 10 out of 10 because our thinking brain is not working because we’re in fight-flight.

Jane McFadden:

Do you have any specific strategies that you use in therapy often or that you might think would work for most mums that we could kind of go through?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Absolutely. Here’s a strategy that comes from dialectical behavior therapy or DBT. It looks at the consequences of getting really stuck or trapped in black and white thinking. You might have heard of that term before. It’s when we think in sort of all or nothing terms, things are either great or they’re terrible, it’s right or it’s wrong, it’s good or it’s bad. It’s when we see it in really dichotomous terms rather than being able to see the grey in situations.

When our emotions get heightened, especially if that’s frustration, anger or rage, we’re much more likely to get trapped in seeing things in that all or nothing way. Black and white thinking tends to amplify our anger and also keeps us stuck in those cycles of rage and then shame like we spoke about last conversation.

Dialectical thinking is about learning to hold two seemingly contradictory beliefs or truths at once. That helps us sort of reduce this black and white thinking and also helps dial down the emotional intensity of our reactions to whatever the sort of trigger in the situation is.

Some common types of black and white thoughts that might come up in our everyday lives as ADHD mums, it might be having a thought like, if I don’t enjoy every moment of motherhood, then I’m a terrible mum. Or if my child is struggling, it must be my fault as a parent. Or if I go back to work, I’m neglecting my child. If I stay home, I’m wasting my potential.

You can hear in those types of thoughts, it’s all or nothing rather than being able to capture the nuances of the grey, more realistic thinking that lies in between. So I think maybe we’ll do some examples and a specific strategy I’m going to try and, I guess, demonstrate here is catching when we’re using a but and trying to flip it to an and. So when we flip it to an and, it helps us pull back or zoom out from that black and white thinking and allow us to see grey, which helps us just generally feel a bit more calmer and regulated in our expectations.

Jane McFadden:

My mum who passed away was like the most incredible mother and you would never have known that she didn’t enjoy every single moment of every single day. Now, I wish she had have lived long enough for me to be a mother to ask her whether that was really true, because she would say things like, I love school holidays. I love every moment of being with you. Like I’m telling you, I think she was a robot, but it has really left me with an un-, like when I didn’t enjoy all the moments, it took me a really long time, well if ever, to be okay with that.

So let me give you some of the beliefs that I have from being raised by what seemed like as a child, a perfect mother. So one of the examples would be, I want to take time for myself, but then I feel like I’m selfish.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

It’s a common one. So I heard in there, there was a but, almost as if taking time for yourself was, that’s at odds with being a kind and selfless mother. Yes. I’m going to try and flip that but to an and.

Jane McFadden:

Now, can I add one thing just in time? I’m so sorry. I basically do no self-care. Self-care is my work, right? Now I’ve been playing this game that I can’t do it because I don’t have time, because of this, because of that, because, you know, oh, my husband would this, that, like making up things. The reality is I could take time out, not whenever I wanted, but a lot. The confusing part is like, I know that, but I still do not do any of it because the belief sits there that if I take that time out, then or and, but that means I am not a good mother or I am selfish and I shouldn’t need to.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

So this process is exactly about examining and evaluating those belief systems and deconstructing them. Where does that sort of black and white thinking originate? And maybe that, again, is the environment that you were brought up in and that was, you know, an adaptive belief system to adopt as well, to fit in and to perform, you know, as expected. So, I mean, this is what a lot of people go to therapy for, but you can absolutely do this work independently.

It’s catching these types of thoughts and looking at them from almost an objective sort of perspective. How does this serve me? How helpful is it for me to continue to hold on to this particular belief in this rigid, dichotomous sort of way? Or can I use a strategy such as this, flipping the but for the and and try to find some more flexibility in the way that I show up in the world and as a mum more specifically?

Jane McFadden:

That makes so much sense. So if I have an opportunity to do something that is for me and I have that belief, what would I then do? So if the belief is something like, I want to take time for myself, but that makes me a selfish mother.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Yes, that’s it. I’d flip that to, I want to take time for myself and that helps me actually be a better, more regulated mother. So we’re making the truth coexist. I can still be a good mum, a good enough mum, and prioritise time for myself or self-care.

So this sort of restructuring of the belief challenges this societal expectation that mothers must be ultimately self-sacrificing and instead reminds us that self-care is actually quite critical. So another example that I hear a lot and I think fits within the rage code-beating territory is a belief that might sound like, I’m frustrated and need space, but a good mother should always be present and patient.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, totally. And then how many of us have burnt out by that belief? So many women would have that belief. Bullshit.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

So I’ll flip the but there and turn it into an and. I’m frustrated and need space and I’m still a good enough mother. So doing this dismantles the unrealistic expectation that mothers must be endlessly patient. We know that’s just not possible or sustainable, but if we hold on to that in this sort of black and white way, then we’re going to keep feeling angry. We’re going to keep beating ourselves up every time we feel like we’re not coping or we yell or we swear or whatever it is that we express our anger through. So if we can be more flexible and realistic, then our emotional reactions are going to be much more tempered.

Jane McFadden:

That makes sense. Okay. I’m going to give you one more. For example, I’d love to be able to chill out on the weekend, but there’s always stuff to be done. I just can’t do it. So there’s always stuff to be done.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

The to-do list is never-ending and I’m going to prioritise some rest. So we can have both of those things be true. You can still prioritise rest and you will come back to the never-ending to-do list at some point.

So by framing it as an and, you’re essentially giving yourself permission to schedule that time to chill out, which we all need, without the guilt and the self-criticism that’s keeping you trapped in this cycle of feeling overwhelmed, raging and then shaming yourself.

Jane McFadden:

So let’s say on the weekend coming up, because my hubby would love to have a rest, but I’m like a taskmaster, I think, in terms of what I think we should do. If I was presented with the opportunity to rest or presented with the opportunity to go do something and chill out, but there’s all these things that we need to be doing to tick off the list, would I repeat that to myself? How would I get that into my brain?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Yeah. So this is all about your self-talk. So it comes back to the first step that always has to be this self-awareness. So if I’m noticing that I’m getting more and more agitated or angry and I’ve got this sort of check-in system, okay, yep, I’m at an eight out of 10 on that thermometer. That is like a cue for me to pause and step back and try to take stock.

What are the external triggers or stresses that are making me sort of escalate? But also what are the stories that my head is telling me about this situation? So if I can do that pause and step back and I notice in the narrative in my head, I’m looping through this sort of black and white story of so many things I need to do, but I really need to rest, but I can’t rest because there’s so many things I need to get done.

And I can use this cognitive strategy to re-evaluate how helpful is that black and white belief system here? Can I give myself permission to say, yeah, I’m stressed and I can schedule some downtime and then I will get onto the rest of the things on the to-do list.

So sort of like linking in the ands rather than backing yourself into a corner, like it has to be this way or it’s this way. Either I’m doing it all or I’m a shit mum or we’re resting and we’re lazy or we’re hyperproductive and therefore we’re going to be okay and successful. It’s just trying to relax some of the rigidity of that black and white thinking.

And if we can do that, then we can be much more attuned in the way that we can meet those needs for rest and managing stress and anger and so forth, rather than everything just boiling up to that 10 and then exploding.

Jane McFadden:

That’s really interesting. A lot of people talk about journaling, which I don’t do, but I think journaling is really incredible and I think it’s a great tool. I just don’t want to pretend that I do it. I don’t. I have a gap. I know it’s good, but I haven’t, can’t, whatever the story is. But I would imagine using a journal for some of those beliefs and reframing them would be really helpful. That would be a good place to do it.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Yeah. And if you’re new to this self-reflective work, it’s really hard to do it in the moment when you’re at nine and you’re a 10 out of 10 on the rage scale. It might be easier to do it, say, at the end of the day, if you can get 10 minutes to yourself after the kids are in bed and you might do it on your phone, in the notes or in an actual notepad and try to just go back and reflect on what was happening for me, my environment, but also internally, what did I observe as I was getting more agitated or angry?

And the more you can do that, you’re essentially collecting data, which then helps you get better at recognising those patterns and those early warning signs. And that’s what we were speaking about before. The better we can recognise those earlier in the piece when you’re at a seven or an eight, then you can intervene before you’re exploding.

So in this context, an intervention is being able to capture, okay, wow, yeah, I was really getting stuck in that sort of black and white thinking everything has to get done now or I’m a shit mum. All right. So next time I’m feeling that sense of overwhelm, like there’s too much to do, how can I try and flip that from black and white thinking to something that’s a bit more grey, which could be an example of there’s so much to do and I’m really overwhelmed and I know that it’s just as important for me to prioritise some downtime today.

Jane McFadden:

I’m loving that because I think I’ve got some really, I don’t want to say fucked up, but I think I’ve got some slave driver belief systems that I will need to tackle.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

That’s a really good description. Because that’s what I think is driving me like I am my own boss, but yet I act like I have Hitler on my ass. Yeah.

So being able to pause and it doesn’t need to be writing down in a journal, but just having a quiet moment to reflect on what’s the story in my head tells me when I’m in that sort of Hitler mode. And what does that do to my nervous system? Does that smash me from a seven to an eight to a nine and then I’m exploding?

And if so, then yeah, do some work around deconstructing some of those belief systems. I mean, it’s so important to not just at an individual level, but it’s also helping mothers or broadly break free from these restrictive gendered beliefs and exfoliate ourselves from the guilt and the shame and allow us to be more self-compassionate in our mindset because parenting is very complex and extremely difficult, especially with a neurodivergent brain. So we need to give ourselves grace and flexibility and kindness in our self-talk.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I couldn’t agree with you more. So we’ve talked about a cognitive strategy, but replacing buts or those sort of restrictive black and white beliefs and replacing them with thoughts that are more flexible or grey. What else can we do in the moment if we’re starting to get eight, nine, ten, absolutely raging?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

You might find that in a lot of the sort of self-help literature, there tends to be this focus on do some relaxation techniques or do some breathing exercises or listen to some meditation music. And that’s awesome if you can do that in the moment, and it does dial down the intensity of that sort of physiological arousal. But for a lot of people, it’s hard to just switch from going up to then going down, almost like a light switch one direction or the other.

And I mean, for me personally as well, if I’m getting angry and that rage is seeping through my pores, if I just try to do some affirmations or switch into some calm breathing, in a way it feels like I’m suppressing the emotion instead of actually dealing with it. So we know that anger is a natural response. And if we don’t release it properly, it can build up as it churns away in a pressure cooker until we blow our lid later and possibly in a more destructive way.

So to really move through anger, rather than just suppressing it or silencing it, we need to find our own way of completing the stress cycle. So this means usually finding like a physical release for all the intensity, the energy of anger, so it doesn’t stay trapped in the body. So some strategies that you can do in the moment might be like a high intensity physical activity.

So you might be doing 20 like star jumps or burpees if you’re that way inclined, squats or squat jumps. It might be like putting on a really high intensity song and dancing, you know, getting your heart rate up. It could be hitting a pillow or like you’ve mentioned before, it might be just locking yourself in the car, in the driveway or the garage for five minutes and just screaming it out and gripping the steering wheel, tensing your body, really like releasing that pressure that you can feel building up.

So this way, we’re allowing your body to actually sort of move through the anger and release it in healthy ways rather than just trying to sort of stuff it down or suppress it or somehow convince ourselves that anger is wrong, we should be feeling this way. We know that that’s just not going to help. And I don’t know about you, but I’m often find it a lot easier to actually come up with these strategies and make these sort of suggestions in guiding my kids when they’re having really rageful moments.

But again, there’s this limiting belief that I’m an adult, you know, I shouldn’t need to swear into my pillow or punch the bed or throw some soft toys around. But like, why not? If we can do that in a safe way and again, acknowledging it out loud, wow, my anger feels really, really intense right now. I’m going to go and take it out on my bed.

We’re actually role modeling that the feelings are natural, they’re okay. And you know, there’s a repertoire of behavioral strategies we can access to move through the anger rather than silencing or suppressing. And that’s really healthy for kids to learn and observe as well.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I love that. I was actually just wondering, there’s quite a few ADHDs that, you know, they get pretty hooked onto their exercise, like running or gym or weights. And when you’re talking about moving your body and actually getting it out, I know quite a few mums who are like, if they don’t get to do their five o’clock class in the afternoon, they just like lose their shit in the evening.

And I just thought it was really interesting that they might be releasing a lot of that pent-up rage or anger.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Yeah. So if you think about that scale from like zero to 10, if you go about your normal day and there’s a lot of demands or suppressions and stresses on you, and you might walk in the door in the afternoon already at an eight, there’s not a lot of wiggle room then to step into witching hour and kids screaming, the sensory sensitivities and the demands of the home environment.

But if you’ve gone to the gym on the way home from work, or you’ve listened to some angry songs in the car and you’ve sung at the top of your lungs and you might be walking in the door then at a six rather than eight, because you’ve already engaged in some of those releasing strategies to help yourself down regulate. Walking in the door then with more wiggle room to handle what’s coming at you.

So I think that’s a really nice proactive approach if you’ve got regular exercise routines, or maybe you call a friend routinely on your way home from work and that’s your sort of vent session. And you could talk about it, like normalise all the things that have pissed you off that day. Again, instead of like holding onto that and that being this pressure cooker, as you walk in the door to your family, you’ve brought yourself down a few pegs, you’ve released it, you’ve moved through some of it and now you’ve got more emotional flexibility to deal with sort of the complexities of family routine.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, I love that. I have a good friend and I’ll text her every now and again and I’ll say, do you have 10 minutes to listen to my first world problems? And she will write back and put, yes, but do you have 10 minutes to listen to my first world problems? Like we acknowledge that they’re first world problems, but then we’re like, just let me talk about them. Like they’re really, really, really important though. And it’s just a stress relief.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

It’s a great point that you’ve made. It’s just like taking the lid off a kettle kind of, and then, you know, you feel better, but there’s no real change that you’ve made. Yeah, but there is change that you’ve made because you’ve actually performed a response in your brain that is when I feel stressed or well or angry, I can release some intensity of that in this way.

And the more we can do that, we’re strengthening those self-regulation pathways that maybe previously we might not have had and would come out as rage once we walk in the door.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, it’s a great point. Thank you so much for your time, Jacinta. This has just been the most interesting episode. I’m really excited actually to think about some of those beliefs and switching them because it’s such a simple but powerful strategy if we could actually isolate what they are. It’s a great point. I’m really looking forward to that. Did you have anything to add before we finish up?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

I also just want to say that it’s okay if you feel like you also need medication to manage irritability, anger and rage. Coming back to the point that there is nothing wrong with these feelings, but if you are really locked in cycles of sort of dysregulation and that secondary shame and you feel like there’s no sort of competitive behavioural social strategies that are helping you regulate that better, then there’s nothing wrong. Have a chat to your GP. I’ve certainly been there and it’s been helpful for me at certain times in my parenting journey. So just to say that there’s no shame in asking for extra help.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, absolutely. I had a massive belief for a really long time. I took antidepressants as a teenager and then I didn’t have a very good experience, probably not the right one, too much. There was probably an issue there with the way that was done a long time ago. Held on to that until like end of last year. So held on to that for, I don’t know, I’m awful at maths, like at least 20 years and then got so desperate.

I tried an antidepressant which is agomelatine. People always ask what it is. That’s what it is. And I couldn’t believe, I was like, what the fuck was I doing for the last 10 years? Why did I hold on to that? That was failure. I just couldn’t believe it. So absolutely want to back you on the medication there. Like if anyone out there has the belief that if you need medication as a mother, you have somehow failed. I really wish I had have done that earlier. So I think it’s great that you’ve mentioned that.

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

So on that, you know, but to end, it’s like I try to be a good mum, but I need medication to manage my emotions. It’s like I take medication to help me regulate, which makes me a healthier mum. And what’s wrong with that?

Jane McFadden:

Oh, it’s a great point because if a friend said to me, I’m feeling this way, but I don’t want to take antidepressants. I would be like, what are you talking about? Of course you should take that. That’s for myself. I was like, oh no, I will never, I will never admit failure. I will continue to regardless of how I feel.

Anyway, that is a great note to end on. Thank you so much for your time, Jacinta. This has been such a great episode. I really appreciate it. If anyone would like to check out Dr. Jacinta Thompson, which I know they would want to, I’m going to leave all of your website, all of your information into the show notes.

I am dyslexic and I do tend to get confused with your business name, Jacinta, and I don’t know why. Could you just reiterate what it is?

Dr. Jacinta Thompson:

Sure. So my business is called Time to Untangle and Dr. Jacinta Thompson, with no P, don’t stop for P, it only slows you down.

Jane McFadden:

Why do I get confused with Time to Untangle? I think, did I used to call it Untangle Time? I don’t know, maybe there’s too many T’s. I remember editing an episode initially and then you were like, Jane, can you just get my business name right? I was like going, Time to Tangle, and you were like, no, it’s Untangle. We’re not tangling, we’re untangling. Let’s get even more confused than we already are.

All of the information is going to be in the show notes and it’s a very simple name. I don’t know why I get confused. I look forward to chatting again soon. Thanks, Jacinta. Bye.

Jane McFadden (closing):

The key message here is you are not alone. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram or head over and join our amazing ADHD Mums podcast Facebook community. Everything you do matters and helps to spread the word about what neurodiversity in females looks like.