REPLAY: S1 Episode 35 – Neurotypical Mum vs ADHD Mum: Is It ADHD or Mum Life? [re-release]

Jane McFadden:

Hello and welcome to the next episode of ADHD Mums. I have a cracker episode here. I have Amanda and Sarah.

We have one ADHD mum and we have her neurotypical friend who took the bait to come and talk about her life versus her friend Amanda’s and what the differences are and what the similarities are. To answer the big question on is this ADHD or is this just mum life, because I tell you, that is the hot topic that comes into my inbox. I’m really grateful that Amanda wrote her friend Sarah in to come and have a chat.

A little bit of an overview on Amanda and Sarah. They are both 38-year-old women. They have been friends since grade nine. That’s 24 years ago. They have been a part of a solid group of friends since then. They grew up in Western Sydney and now Amanda has two kids, a five-year-old son diagnosed autistic and a severe receptive and expressive language delay.

She has a two-and-a-half-year-old daughter living in a small rural village near Penrith in New South Wales. While Sarah, also married with two kids, is living in the beautiful seaside town of Kasserina in Northern New South Wales. She has a daughter who is seven and a son who is five.

Amanda is currently in the process of seeking an ADHD diagnosis, although she has known for some time that that is what she has. When you know, you know, but she’s currently seeking a diagnosis. Amanda worked as a real estate agent prior to having kids and now owns a plumbing business with her husband and works from home managing kids, paperwork and neurodivergent life.

Sarah owns her own home organizational business called Zen Spaces by Sarah. I’m going to put that link into the podcast notes. Sarah’s business helps families declutter and create organized and functional beautiful spaces.

Welcome to Amanda and Sarah.

 

Amanda:

Hi.

 

Sarah:

Hello.

 

Jane McFadden:

I also asked you ladies to plan the podcast a little bit as well. So this went really well. And you said that that was a bit of a baptism of fire as well, just in the planning process with the two of you being different.

 

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So Amanda and I spoke to each other on Sunday just to compare our lives. And we’re on the phone for quite a while because obviously we’re good friends so we can have a good chat.

But we did stay focused on what we were supposed to talk about. But I was in my daughter’s room, focused, had nothing else going on. I was very, very lucky that my husband could take my kids out.

So there was no distractions there. And I was just sitting on the bed, happy to chill and have a chat. But Amanda was doing a hundred other things, running around, running errands, going shopping, getting food for the family.

 

Amanda:

Yeah, just doing a lot of things while having a chat about how our lives are different.

Jane McFadden:

Oh, absolutely. If I have a phone appointment, I cannot sit and just talk to somebody about the one subject for a period of time. So I totally, totally get that. You kind of got to be doing something else.

So where do you think, like in your friendship group, you’re the only neurotypical. What attracts you to the friendship?

Sarah:

That’s a good question. I love that we can always relax. I love that my friends seem to have this energy that sometimes I lack.

Sometimes I’m like, I want to sit here and chill. And they’re like, hey, let’s go do this. And let’s go do that. And rah, rah, rah. And they get things done. Whereas I would just sit back and be like, oh, whatever.

But it also comes down to we’re really able to support each other through everything. So we have that real balance of fun and we can get down and dirty with like shit that’s going on in our lives and just really support each other through that.

 

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, beautiful. What about you, Amanda?

 

Amanda:

That is exactly what it’s like with Sarah. We’d always go out and I was just joking before about how you would always be like, oh, let’s just sit down. And I’m like, sit down? What? I don’t sit down.

But like you said, we always brought it back to supporting each other.

 

Jane McFadden:

Amanda, do you feel like Sarah gives you a sense of grounding or like, you know, do you run things by her because you think she’s quite measured? Is that a benefit? Do you think?

 

Amanda:

Definitely. Like I love people. Like I really love getting to know lots of different people. And so, you know, Sarah is like a rock. Like she really is.

She’s solid and she’s calm and you know what you get from Sarah. Like each time you see her, there’s no different Sarah or there’s no, yeah, she’s just a very level-headed, solid brand. And it’s so funny that she started a home organization business because that’s what she does.

Like she’s organized. She’s always got her ducks in a row. And like, it’s just a good friendship to have when your life is chaos.

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Let’s kick this off straight into mum life.

Perfect — I’ll continue formatting the entire transcript in the same style, breaking it into clear speaker sections with full readability while keeping every single word intact. Picking up exactly where we left off:

 

Jane McFadden:

So I suppose I wanted to go through a couple of examples with both of you. So we’re trying to look at things that most mums experience and trying to get a place of reference for some people that are listening. And they might go, I’m really resonating with Sarah.

Actually that level of stress is neurotypical mum life versus, you know, Amanda’s experience. If we go off to the first example, we’re going to go straight to morning routine. So both of you have got two kids and you’re both trying to get out of the house.

Who would like to go first on what that kind of looks for you?

 

Amanda:

So this is the hardest part of my day. Like it’s when I’m, to be honest, at my lowest as well in terms of how I feel. It’s when I have to use all of my executive functioning skills.

I’m just not very good at that. I’m just not. And I’ve realized I’m not good.

Whereas, you know, two years ago I would have said I’m great at this because I try so hard at it. And I’ve just come to realize like I’m just struggling and it’s not fun. So a typical morning for me would be, you know, wake up, have a shower and get dressed.

That takes a variable amount of time because I get so distracted with many, many, many things.

 

 

Jane McFadden:

What time are you getting up?

 

Amanda:

Usually between five and six, I’m getting up to have a shower. In an ideal world, I’m waking up to beat the kids because otherwise it’s just, yeah, a nightmare.

But a lot of the time my husband can get up and he will actually start their breakfast and things while I’m having a shower. So when I come out of the shower, I’ve got to start packing their bags. I’ve got to pack their lunches.

I’m, you know, getting them dressed. Like Spencer’s quite high so he doesn’t have any autonomy yet. So I need to dress him.

I need to feed him. I need to do everything for him still. And yeah, I just lose track of time very easily.

So I feel like I’m looking at my phone at the time all the time, but I just can’t seem to pin it down and be like, oh great, it’s almost eight. I should have this done by now. Like I just lose it.

And I’m like, oh my God, it’s quarter past eight. Like every single day it’s just time blindness.

 

Jane McFadden:

And your husband, where is he? Is he keeping you to time or is he just off with the wind as well?

 

Amanda:

He’s gone to work.

Like he’s very rarely there at this point in time. And he’s got a huge time blindness. Like we’re just terrible together.

We’re late to everything you can imagine. So I’m trying to get the kids out the door. And then, you know, because Spencer has his autistic traits, like it adds another layer of lateness too, because nothing goes to plan.

He’s doing his own thing. He’s doing it in his time. I’ve got to count him down out of every transition.

That takes time. And if I miss the cue for that, I’ve got to give him that 10 minutes, regardless of if I’m meant to be out the door, you know, otherwise it’s a meltdown. So as well as me not being fantastic, then there’s that added layer of complexity in our morning.

And I will get out of the door at all different times. Some days I jump in the car. I’m still full of anxiety because I’m like, I’ve got to do all this stuff and get out of the door.

And I sit in the car and I’m like, oh wow, it’s like quarter to nine. It’s so good.

 

Jane McFadden:

Can I tell you why that is?

 

Amanda:

No, I have no clue how I got in the car at the right time that day. But yeah, it’s just a nightmare.

And most mornings I sit in the car and my daughter wants to hear Baby Shark again every morning. And I put it on and I’m at my highest level of anxiety.

I’m just absolutely a mess. And I’m like so highly strung. And it’s a horrible feeling every morning.

 

Jane McFadden:

How do you feel when you wake up and you open your eyes? Do you feel like, oh, I’m energized. I can take on the day or like, holy shit, this is going to go bad. Like, what’s your mood like?

 

Amanda:

I’m not a morning person at all, but usually I get in the shower and I’m feeling quite calm. Like I’m like, yeah, you know, I feel good. I’ve got heaps of time because usually I’m in the shower at a reasonable time.

It’s everything that ensues after that just increases that anxiety.

 

Jane McFadden:

So let’s just say it’s one of those days that you’ve got to take something to school. When do you figure that out?

 

Amanda:

Sometimes I remember and sometimes I don’t. Like one time I rocked up in preschool with my little daughter and I was like, I’m getting this vibe that something’s going on.

This is not a normal day. And then I’m noticing like everyone’s wearing purple and I’m like, you know, like, I’m like, okay, this is, I’ve missed it. Like, I don’t know.

I’ve got to keep up with the notifications on the app. And sometimes I just look at the first two and I get distracted. And it’s very common for me just to forget or not fill in the form I meant to or I ended up coming in later that afternoon to give the donation or, you know, it’s.

 

Jane McFadden:

What is your percentage of getting there on time versus late? Like, when would you generally get there?

 

Amanda:

Oh, 1%. I’m not even joking. 1%.

Unless I have some really important one-off meeting that just happens to be right after, I usually can use all of my energy and all of my anxiety to make it happen. But to me, the cost of that energy is not worth it. I couldn’t sustain that every day.

I couldn’t put an appointment right after dropping off the kids at 9.30 or something every day, because I think I would literally have a mental breakdown. It takes all of my like thoughts, energy, anxiety, everything has to come together perfectly. And I feel exhausted after.

Like, I remember one time I got to an early appointment once and afterwards I was just like, I have to go lay down. Like, that was just the most hectic one year of my life. Which is sad.

 

Jane McFadden:

And see, imagine if psychologists didn’t know that you had ADHD and they were like, just book a nine o’clock appointment and then you’ll make yourself get there. And then you have an expectation, why can I not do this? Anyway, we will move on. That was a beautiful insight.

So let’s do the same with you, like wake up time, mood, step-by-step, how often you get there on time with you, Sarah.

 

Sarah:

Yeah, sure. And I do want to sort of start this by acknowledging that my kids are a little bit older than Amanda’s. And when they were younger, it was a lot harder than what it is now.

 

Jane McFadden:

So Sarah’s kids are seven and five, just reminder. And Amanda’s kids are five with autism and a two and a half year old.

 

Sarah:

So yeah, I actually think that’s really important to acknowledge. Thanks. Yeah.

Look, my daughter is definitely neurotypical. She is just amazing in everything she does and she’s easy. She’s really easy.

My son is not so easy. I do question whether he has ADHD. And after Amanda and I were talking to each other, I was like, okay, yeah, there’s some things here that she’s saying.

And I’m like, yeah, my son definitely relates to these traits. But anyway, my morning, I don’t know what time I wake up, but I know it’s the same time every day because I am in a bit of a privileged space at the moment where my bedroom window overlooks the horizon. So I wake up whenever the sun rises.

 

Would you like me to keep flowing through the whole transcript in one go until the end (it will be long), or would you prefer I send it in structured chunks (like Morning Routine → School/Events → Meal Planning → Admin → Impulsivity → Closing) so it’s easier for you to copy/paste into your notes or site?

Sarah:

Beautiful. Oh, it’s so good. I love it.

I’ve never had this in my life though. I know that I wake up at about the same time every day. I know that I’m running late because I open my blinds and I go, oh, the sun’s a bit higher than what it should be. Crap, let’s get up.

But generally I wake up calm and it’s around sunrise. Then I’ll have a shower, I’ll get ready. And I would say it’s about the same amount of time each day. I don’t have my phone upstairs with me. So I’m not getting distracted by that.

My son generally wakes up and our mornings are then determined by his mood. If he’s in a good mood, the morning goes fairly smoothly. I’ll start making them breakfast, get the lunches packed, and then go back upstairs to get the kids ready for the day.

My daughter, I can say, go and get ready for the day and she’ll get undressed, get a uniform, get everything done, no issues. My son needs constant reminders. We need to count down from 10 to get every item of clothing off and every item of clothing back on.

And the smoothness of that is often determined by my mood, which I think probably has to do with my cycle. We’re generally out the door by—the bus comes literally across the road from me. So the bus comes at about quarter past eight.

So about 10 past eight, we’re ready to go out the door. And it has been running fairly smoothly lately. I haven’t been too many crazy mornings. And I think that comes down to us having a routine, systems in place to make it happen smoothly.

 

Jane McFadden:

So Sarah, with your mood after you said goodbye, how are you feeling? When do you start work? What do you do after that? How’s your mood at this point?

 

Sarah:

Most of the time, recently, my mood’s been pretty good because our mornings have run fairly smoothly. Sometimes I’m like, oh man, I’ve just yelled at him and being like, why can’t you do this? Put your shoes on, put your shoes on, put your shoes on.

But we are getting better at that. So lately, my mood’s been pretty good. To be fair though, when my son was in preschool, so this was maybe a year or two ago, I would have mornings similar to what Amanda’s describing, not because of being late.

Very rarely are we late. It’s more me think I’ve had this expectation of my kids, like my expectation’s pretty high. And when they haven’t met it, I lose my shit.

And there definitely has been hard mornings. More so when my kids were younger.

 

Amanda:

Yeah, I was saying to Sarah, one of the questions I asked her was, how often do you have those mornings? Like where it is like, you’re just upset and a disaster and you’re like, hardly ever.

Like it happens sometimes and it’s rare, but it does happen. And it was more often when your son was younger.

 

Jane McFadden:

I think the other thing that we can ever possibly get to on this podcast would be the level of chaos.

Because I think that would be different too. So I have two best friends, one’s neurotypical, one has ADHD. When one says they have a chaotic morning, I know it’s completely different for both of them.

So that’s something that we can never really get to on this podcast because it’s relative to their life when we talk about that as well.

The other thing I wanted to ask you, Sarah, was let’s say you’ve got your orange day, your brown day, let’s all put in a protest that all stops. But when you do have that day, when do you anticipate that day? What system do you have? How does that work for you?

 

Sarah:

Yeah. So I get the message on Seesaw or the newsletter or whatever it is. And I put that down in my Google calendar and also on the hard copy calendar that I have hanging in my pantry.

So that way it’s visual for me when I’m booking in clients and it’s also, I can see it when I’m going to get snack out of the pantry or when I’m making breakfast that morning. It’s right in front of me. I can see it.

Those days do generally run pretty smoothly because I’ve got that visual reminder. And if I didn’t have it, I would probably forget, to be honest, because our mental load as mums is huge.

 

Jane McFadden:

So let’s say got that reminder. It’s up on the calendar and it says blue t-shirt for child, right? Let’s say you don’t have the blue t-shirt in your house. It’s not there. You don’t have one. They’ve grown out of it. It’s lost. Probably doesn’t happen for you. Let’s just pretend it has.

How do you remember then to get the t-shirt? How does that happen in your brain?

 

Sarah:

I feel like it stays in my brain every day, multiple times every day until I’ve done it. And it depends on my week. Sometimes I can go a week before. Sometimes I can go a couple of days before. Sometimes it is the day before and I’m like, oh, I got to get that. Let’s go now.

But it is, I would say, 99% of the time ready to go the morning of.

 

Jane McFadden:

Let’s then switch to Amanda. And I’m just going to ask some hard questions because you guys are friends and you know this is literally in let’s just spread the message about how this works.

And Amanda, I have ADHD too. I’m not asking this in a judgy way. I just want to highlight.

Sarah’s made a really good point with Seesaw, right? You get the message, you open the message, you write it in your GCAL, you write it in your calendar and visually. Then she looks at it and then she completes the task.

Do you ever think that you would do that process? What is the barriers to you doing that? Or do you just never even bother even attempting? Where’s that for you?

 

Amanda:

I do attempt because I feel so much chaos as it is, but there’s so many steps. It sounds so simple when Sarah says it. It just sounds so calm and clear.

But for me, it’s like I’ve got to actually look at the app. I’ve got to then put it into the calendar. I’ve then got to look at the calendar again to remember it.

And then I’ve got to book in a time to go to the shop to get the t-shirt. Then I’ve got to get to the shop and remember to get the t-shirt. Then I’ve got to get the t-shirt home and remember to pre-wash it or whatever other steps you’ve got.

And then the day of I’m like, oh my God, where’s that t-shirt? Is it still in the bag? What did I buy with it? Which bag is it in? There’s so many steps that I can forget very easily any of those steps.

And that’s why if he’s ever going to be wearing the blue t-shirt—

 

Jane McFadden:

I just want to contrast something else, if I may, because I think this is really interesting.

We’ve got Sarah neurotypical. We’ve got Amanda, who I think we’re pretty confident you have ADHD. I’d like to say you’ve got ADHD, you’re not diagnosed, but I think we’re pretty confident.

Then we have me with ADHD diagnosed and medicated. Before I was medicated, I am 100% with you, Amanda. There is no way I would have had a visual calendar. I would have had GCAL organized. I would have known the login to the Seesaw.

There is way too many steps and I’ll probably just find some old t-shirt of my husband’s and then tie it in a knot and put it on one of my kids and be like, there you go.

I have also arrived to prep with my daughter, which was a breakdown year, and saw that everybody, because we were so late, saw that everybody was wearing some kind of princess outfit, assumed it was princess outfit day, freaked out, put her back in the car because I’m so used to forgetting things, gone and bought a princess outfit, taken her back in princess outfit to find that they were just doing a dress up for 10 minutes and actually there was nothing to do with princess. Now my child’s in a princess outfit all day.

 

Would you like me to keep flowing through the meal planning and admin sections next, or do you prefer I send each remaining major section (Meal Planning → Admin → Impulsivity → Closing) in separate responses so it’s easier for you to work with?

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh no. And then I was like, how has it become 10 o’clock? But now, medicated Jane, right, after a long road of trying to find the right one, I really encourage people to be persistent. I know it’s expensive and time-consuming. Don’t give up.

Find the right medication if that’s what you feel you should do. Now I am that person that can look at Seesaw or I at least remember to check it at the start of the week. I might not do it every time exactly.

I do have the visual calendar set up. I do have it on my G-Cal and I have a fairly good idea what’s going to be happening. That’s medicated Jane.

So I think there are some layers there too because when I hear you talk, Amanda, I’m like, that was before medication for Jane and that was not a good space where you’re just chasing your tail and you can’t even begin to even work out the steps to what Sarah just listed because she said it so beautifully. I was like, sounds so easy. Why doesn’t everybody do that? Because it’s actually really overwhelming.

So let’s move on to like the mum life stuff that everybody has to deal with. So we’ve got meal plan, dinner prep, admin, school, work. I mean, Sarah, you’re managing a business as well and Amanda, you’re actually doing similar.

So give us a bit of an overview on how that coordination looks, Sarah.

 

 

 

Sarah:

Okay. So we do a meal plan at the start of every week. We don’t vary much from that meal plan. Our dinners are pretty much the same every week just because I can’t be bothered to think of anything new, but it is all planned out.

And then my husband then does the grocery shopping on a Sunday. So I’ve got all the ingredients ready to go. We also batch cook. So we might have 10 meals of spaghetti bolognese in the freezer ready to go so that that way on a day when the kids have an activity that might run late, this spaghetti bolognese is ready just to be put in the oven and just cooked.

And it’s just easy. So I do plan for those hard days because otherwise, it’s just not going to happen. We’re going to end up with takeaway because I don’t have that mental capacity to come up with something at 5 o’clock, 5.30, 6 o’clock at night. It’s not going to happen.

Sometimes I have to do an occasional shop in like the middle of the week to do a bit of a stock up or a resale. And then it all runs fairly smoothly.

Jane McFadden:

What about like admin kids? Let’s say one kid’s sick. How do you handle that kind of stuff? Do you try and plan in advance? You’ve got contingency plans or how does that work?

Sarah:

Generally, if one kid’s sick, to be fair, they don’t get sick that often. So I am pretty lucky with that. But if one child is sick, generally, I will have the day off.

Jane McFadden:

How’s your mood? Do you take that well? Do you get stressed? Do you then try and work at the same time? What’s your mood to handle the change?

 

Sarah:

Yeah, I’m actually pretty fine with it. I will probably work from home, obviously, in a different capacity to being at a client’s house. But I’m like, oh, I get an extra admin day. Oh, I can catch up with some washing or I can do some extra tidying around the house while my child is just relaxing and resting like they should be.

I just welcome it a little bit, to be honest, because I’m like, oh, I get a bit of downtime.

 

Jane McFadden:

That sounds quite nice, the way you describe it. Shaking her head on the video. She’s dying inside.

When I get influenza or something again, I’m going to drive to Casarina and sit on Sarah’s couch and she can just do admin calmly around me.

 

Sarah:

My day isn’t always that calm, I promise you. Honestly, I don’t know.

 

Jane McFadden:

I think you should be a hypnotherapist. You’ve got such a calm voice. I’m like, that sounds lovely.

 

Sarah:

Oh, thanks.

 

Jane McFadden:

Amanda, how does this look for you with meal planning and coordinating? How does that go to your groceries? When do you do that? What’s your look on that?

 

Amanda:

I don’t even know where to start because that just sounds so normal and just peaceful and it’s just not my life. I have a calendar on the wall that’s meant to be for meal prep and I haven’t filled it in for like a month because I feel busy.

I just can’t seem to get to that point where I’m planning my meals. I mean, I go to the shop and I wing it. I go into the grocery shop and I go, what are we going to have? Let’s have a look around.

Then I just pick a few things out and then go buy the matching stuff. It takes me a while because I’m coming back and forth to the different parts of the shop. Then I throw it all together and then hope I remember.

The takeaway shops here must just absolutely love ADHD people because if any single thing is out of whack or a child is sick or anything happens that’s not normal, takeaway. There is no backup. There is no frozen meal.

Even just to get the meal done in the first place is like a miracle. Takeaway is unfortunately a regular thing. If one of my kids is sick, I’m not joking, I will inevitably be calling my husband on the phone crying because it has just completely annihilated any plan I had, any thought of downtime, any thought of peace and quiet.

My day’s ruined. I’m literally crying on the phone and saying how I can’t handle my own life. It’s a mess compared to your beautiful story just then about all the normal things.

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh, yeah. I cry in the office quite regularly.

The other thing I remember as well, when I used to grocery shop unmedicated, I used to go there and then I’d come back and I’d be really proud of myself and my husband would look through the stuff and be like, you haven’t got one complete meal here. Everything is confused. You’ve got a little bit of everything. You’ve got pasta sauce, but no pasta.

You’ve got chicken, but no Mexican wraps. What were you thinking when you bought all this stuff? I’d be like, I don’t know. There’s two things that have stopped me from doing that and that is I overbuy. I have 10 packets of pasta.

The second thing is I only shop at Woolworths and no other shops because I know where everything is and I just do laps and it’s less likely that I’m going to miss things even though I still do.

 

Sarah:

To be fair, when I did do grocery shopping, which I don’t anymore because my husband thinks that I spend too much money when I go. When I did do grocery shopping, I would have a complete list of everything that we need and sometimes I buy a little bit extra, which is maybe why I spend more than what he does, but I would have to have that complete list.

Otherwise, I don’t know if I would forget. I might forget, but then there would definitely be things that were missing. I might still have a whole meal or a few whole meals, but there would still be things that were missing and I do need that list and maybe it’s because I really don’t like grocery shopping and I don’t want to go back there.

 

Jane McFadden:

You wrote the list, Sarah. You wrote it.

 

Amanda:

I wrote the list.

 

Jane McFadden:

I was going to say, Amanda, where was your list, mate? This sounds easy. Just write a list. Where was the list, guys?

 

Amanda:

Simple.

 

Jane McFadden:

This is why you berate yourself, I think. You think that doesn’t sound hard, but it is hard. It’s like your brain just doesn’t quite work that way.

 

Amanda:

That’s why I’ve been berating myself most of my life. Why can’t you do this? It’s so simple. Everyone else can bloody do it. What’s wrong with me?

 

Sarah:

But also, Amanda, like we were talking about the other day, neurodivergent mum or dad often comes with neurodivergent children. For example, I was talking about my son, but there’s only one of him to three of us.

But I can’t imagine if my daughter was the same or if I was the same or if my husband was the same. I can’t imagine having more than one. It’s just layer upon layer with every family member that is like that.

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh, 100%. My boys last night, I’ve got boys five and four and I’ve got a little girl as well. I was trying to teach them for the millionth time, when they take their clothes off, pop it in the basket. That should be simple.

What they do is they ball them up into balls and they throw them at each other like weapons. Then they put them into the bath to see how wet they can get. Then they pick them up and throw them as wet missiles.

I walked back in last night and I was like, has anyone put their clothes in the handkerchief? I was throwing their wet clothes, school uniform stuff, as I walked in. I was like, this shit is not normal.

I just was like, we’re not even close. We are not even close. We are so far away from that. They looked at me like, why would we put them in the handkerchief? It’s so much more fun to wet them and throw them at things. No, anyway, sorry.

 

Sarah:

They’re probably encouraging each other too. They’re probably like, yeah, let’s do this.

 

Jane McFadden:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

 

Sarah:

Whereas my son, if there was more than one of him, that would be absolutely doing the same. But my daughter is like, oh no, we can’t do that. We need to follow the rules and she’ll pull him into lines.

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh no, it’s good. Okay. We’ve done that one. Let’s say you’re on your computers, you’re doing your admin, you’re doing your work. I think this is a really great way to look at the similarities and the differences.

For example, let’s go into how many tabs do you have open? How many tasks do you do at once? Do you have a list? Let’s start with you, Sarah.

 

Jane McFadden:

Amanda and I both laughed when you did that, because they were actually on the phone. I said, how many tabs in the internet browser do you have open right now? She said, 400 and something. I’m like, what?

 

Amanda:

1. I maxed out today at 500. I couldn’t get past it. Apple doesn’t allow more than 500 tabs. It’s almost like writing down a list. Don’t forget that. Don’t forget that. Don’t forget that. It’s all my interests basically in one.

 

Jane McFadden:

Do you have any list system at all, Amanda?

 

Amanda:

The one thing I really got from being—I was a real estate agent and they actually taught me diary management, which at the time, I was like, oh yeah, but it actually taught me really good life skills.

I do write lists and I prioritize and I know how to if I want to micromanage a day into minutes. I can do it. It’s like once I’ve had kids now, it’s just—

 

Jane McFadden:

What system do you use?

 

Amanda:

A piece of paper. I’m not joking. I just write my list each day. I’m old school.

 

Jane McFadden:

Do you carry it around?

 

Amanda:

No, it’s at home and then I’ll screenshot it if I go out.

 

Jane McFadden:

How do you add to the list though, Amanda?

 

Amanda:

I do use my notes in my phone, but I like that the piece of paper is in my face on the bench, so it’ll be there all day with my list. If I don’t do the list when nothing’s super urgent, just housework or something and I really get much finished, I’ll just start all of these things.

It’s only when I write it down and I prioritize it. Even if I write it down, it doesn’t make a difference. I need to write 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. I’ll actually get things completed.

That is the only way. I’ve never gone into apps and I do have notes in my phone, but they’re just additional things.

 

Jane McFadden:

Let’s say you sit down, you’re like, oh, I’ve got an admin day. My kids are at daycare or at school. I’m ready to go. Do you have your physical paper with you? Is that how you do it?

 

 

 

Amanda:

If I’m sitting down to do something for the day, I will write my list, but because I do paperwork for my husband’s business, it is so boring. It is not my special interest. That gives me nothing except that it’s flexible with my children.

I’m trying to sit down and focus at my desk. I usually get up about 15 times before I actually start because I’m like, I’ve got to get a cup of tea. I’ve got to turn on some music to distract me and keep my mind focused. I’ve got to put on my oil thing to make it smell nice in here.

I’m getting up constantly. Then finally, when I get into it, I then will probably have a message come through and I get distracted. It is so full on.

It is stop start and I have to put the phone away to have any chance, but I can always open a tab on my laptop. It gets really difficult to stay focused.

 

Jane McFadden:

Can I make a guess, Amanda, that if you have, let’s say, four hours to do your paperwork, you’ve got boring paperwork versus tabs with special interest. You’ve got no hope.

I would imagine you’re doing your tabs for a long period and then doing your cups of tea, procrastinating because you don’t want to do the paperwork and then going around and around in this circle, feeling very productive, but actually texting people and scrolling and doing all kinds of things. Then you’ve got an hour before pickup and I would imagine that you would then—on.

It’s become dire. Now, I need to do the paperwork. Then you flog yourself and then you run late to pick up your kids. That’s just my guess.

 

Amanda:

Yes. Okay. That makes sense. I was listening to you like, I know where this is going. A hundred percent.

 

Jane McFadden:

Anyway, that was a lovely story, Amanda. That was a blast into my life also. I was like, I hear you.

Sarah, how does that go for you?

 

Sarah:

I guess I start out with a similar intention to Amanda. To be fair, I only write my lists on my admin day. I schedule in one admin day a week.

The other four days, I’m at clients’ houses. The other four days, I don’t have a list. I’m just in autopilot—morning routine, work, afternoon, dinner.

I don’t try and add anything else extra to that. My admin day, I try and cram in as much as I can. Those days, I will brain dump and have a list of everything on my brain that I need to get done, but I don’t need to write numbers next to them in the way that Amanda does.

I can just say, okay, it’s book week tomorrow and I haven’t got a hat for this child. That’s a priority. I need to do that first, or that’s what can wait, or that’s what I really want to do because I enjoy doing it. I’m going to do that first and the others can wait.

I can prioritize it. I never get it all ticked off because I do put everything that I’m thinking on that list, but I get most of it ticked off most of the time.

And I am able to focus in the sense that like Amanda was saying, she’ll sit down and then get up and do this and rah, rah, rah, rah, whereas I will do the things first. Like, okay, I’m going to put on a load of washing. I’ll do that first.

And that washing can go while I do some admin. Or I’m hungry. I’ll get that first. And then I’ll sit down and do some admin and eat while I’m doing it. So it’s not that constant stop, start, stop, start.

Obviously, I’d still have to have breaks, but I guess it’s not to the same extent and it’s not detracting from what I need to achieve in the day.

 

Jane McFadden:

Okay. So it sounds a lot easier for you to prioritize. So if you’re looking at a list of things, you’re like, okay, do you feel a sense of overwhelm or stress or do you think, okay, I’m just going to systematically knock this list off?

 

 

Sarah:

I can easily get overwhelmed and stressed with my to-do list. And I actually started writing them just so I could show my husband, this is what I do on my admin days. Like, look at all this shit that I need to get done. But I sort of have moved on a bit from there.

I try not to let it overwhelm me or stress me. I go, well, I do whatever I can do. And as long as I’ve got the important things done, that’s just going to have to be okay.

And that list, I’ll then just flick it to the next admin day.

 

Jane McFadden:

Because then you’re able to prioritize. So then I would imagine if you then have a sick child, it’s kind of a bit more manageable because you’ve prioritized the right tasks at the right time before that. So it would be pretty rare that things would be—

 

Sarah:

Generally. Look, it’s not perfect. Yeah.

 

Jane McFadden:

Oh, look, no, nothing’s ever perfect. But I think when you have a run of days where you haven’t prioritized properly, then it’s easier to hit because you’re already near chaos, right? You only need one more thing to happen. Whereas if you prioritize the right things at the right time, you do have a little bit of a buffer.

What about in terms of you on your computer, tabs, getting distracted, do you just go down a rabbit hole at times or how does that work?

 

Sarah:

Yeah. I mean, there can be times where I go down rabbit holes and I’ll swipe an Instagram and I go, I’m researching for my business. I’m just trying to get ideas. And really, I’m just doing it because I just like looking at it.

 

Jane McFadden:

It’s your passion.

 

Sarah:

Yeah, okay. I guess everyone does that. Yeah.

But when I was on the phone to Amanda, we were comparing how many tabs and I said, I have five and I’m closing them all right now because I’m lucky if I haven’t done that, none of it was urgent. I’m like, if I haven’t done that or if I haven’t thought that, I’m closing it right now because that’s wiping that mental load clear for me. And if it’s really important, I’m going to remember it and I’m going to think about it again anyway.

Same with emails—unsubscribe, delete as soon as I can. My inbox is zero as often as possible.

 

Jane McFadden:

You know what’s really interesting is we were supposed to be contrasting a neurotypical person or mum and an ADHD mum. But you know what? I actually am starting to identify a lot more with Sarah since taking medication.

I 100% have a history with what you say, Amanda. I’m having a laugh because I’m like, that is really, there is a lot of years of that and I fully identify with it. But actually, when you talk about your life, Sarah, and some of the things that you do, it’s interesting.

Now, I’m regularly taking medication. I can actually do that. For example, we never used to have any food and I used to go and buy a mishmash of just random crap somewhere through the week.

It made no sense what we had. We had no complete meals, yet we would spend a lot of money and then not really have anything. Whereas we actually have a system.

It’s like, yeah, I’ve actually started to get ahead of it as opposed to just reactive to chaos. This morning, I thought was a real breakthrough for me. I’ve had a bit of a battle with acne in the past and it’s been great now because I went and saw someone and I’ve got this stuff and it’s all beautiful.

I’m pretty pedantic with replacing it because I do know if I don’t, I’ll break out. I was running to the end of it and I actually, instead of just texting the lady going, can you send me some more of this? I actually went, I’m just going to check what else I need. I went to a designated spot where I had all of my makeup refills and I had a look and I was like, hmm, I probably need some more of this.

I created a little list. This only took me a minute or two and I sent it to her and I thought, holy moly, I think that I am in a new life for Jane. I just wanted to highlight because this has been really interesting reflecting on before-medication Jane and medicated Jane because some of those things that you’ve been doing, Sarah, I’ve actually found myself starting to break up the steps down and start to get ahead of it, which I don’t mean to upset you, Amanda, but it is a different way of living.

It really is and it’s a lot calmer.

 

Jane McFadden:

The other thing that I think is really, we should finish up, but I did want to just highlight one other thing that I think we really should talk about and I know I haven’t mentioned this before in our little chat before, but is impulsivity.

For example, before I was medicated, I was that person that would go and find another problem to deal with before I dealt with my real problems.

I was just wondering if we go to you first, Amanda, do you have that dopamine seeking like you’ll go and do something else which adds chaos instead of dealing with your own problem?

 

Amanda:

Before having children, I could manage because I had so much time to myself. I could make all these allowances, not realizing that it was harder for me than others. I just didn’t realize.

Once I had my first child, that’s when the anxiety levels went up. I’d never had anxiety in my whole life. I didn’t know what it was.

I was like, what is going on? I had anxiety and then we just started doing all these things. We were always renovating. Chris was pulling his hair out like my husband and I’m like, yep, this one next.

This is what we’re doing. This is what we’re doing next. We’re always doing something. Then we were going through IVF too with our children as well, so that took a lot of my focus.

I keep my life so busy and now that we’re a little bit calmer, I’m like, why am I still so stressed and why is my life still so hectic? ADHD. But it’s only been through medication that I have actually had the self-insight to realize that because I thought that’s just what people did.

 

Jane McFadden:

Sarah, let’s swing to you. Do you find that you go and make big decisions brashly? Do you ever have impulsivity? Do you create chaos for fun? That sounds creepy, but that’s what people do.

 

Sarah:

No, I definitely do not create chaos for fun. I would avoid chaos at all costs. I’m very intentional with what I can bring into my lives.

I don’t overfill my kids’ after-school schedules, for example. This is all we can do and we need to have a couple of afternoons off it. I know that if I’m feeling overwhelmed with anything else in my life, I’m not bringing anything else in that I can handle it.

Even if my husband comes to me and says, hey, let’s do this or let’s do this. I’m like, no, I can’t handle that right now. I can easily just shut it down and just be like, this is my max and that’s it. I’m not going to add anything else to it.

I guess I don’t have that impulsivity. But I think that also comes down to what I’m trying to preach with my business. I’m trying to empower women to live more minimalistic and cut back on things in their lives so that they do have more mental space.

Maybe I also feel that pressure to live what I’m preaching and be very intentional and show how that’s impacting my life so that I can then help other women to do the same.

 

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. I think it’s that impatience too, which is a really strong ADHD trait. For example, a lot of ADHDs have an idea or a solution that comes into their brain spontaneously, like out of nowhere. Then they just need to action it right now, even though it’s probably not the right time.

For example, renovating a bathroom. Oh, I saw this bathroom sink on sale. I’m going to buy that. Now I’m going to start renovating. I don’t have any other bathroom. I have no plans for how that’s going to work.

I am now showering outside using a hose and because there’s no plumbers available and I’ve already ripped it out. That’s an ADHD thing.

Whereas, Sarah, I can’t imagine you doing that. I could imagine you more being like, well, this is not the right time to start renovating. We are going to wait for the right time. We’ll book it all properly. We’ll have a contingency plan for showers.

Is that correct, Sarah? Because that’s the vibe I’m getting from—

 

Sarah:

Yeah, correct.

 

Jane McFadden:

Okay, great. We definitely would.

 

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

 

Jane McFadden:

I think that’s a key difference to finish up with. I do think there are some ADHD traits, for example, that just come from having a very stressed life, being a mum, being tired, having too much to do, not enough time, financial pressures. There has never been a more stressful time—I mean, I don’t know—to be a woman.

At the moment, the pressure from society, you have the house, have the kids, look perfect, work out, have a great relationship, have the perfect everything. There’s so much pressure.

I think, obviously, people do have bad days, but I suppose how often they have the bad days, which you highlighted earlier, Amanda, that Sarah might have some bad days and that’s normal. But if you’re on a run of bad days every day and you’re unable to get ahead of it, you’re unable to put the visual calendar together, to write the shopping list, you’re never ahead, you’re always behind. When it starts to heavily impact your life, then that’s probably more of an ADHD thing.

Whereas, of course, some people run late, they have a bad day, you forget your car keys, you forget the princess day—sometimes that happens. But you probably want to look at how often, I suppose, is the message.

 

Amanda:

Yeah, because I always see those videos on Instagram and TikTok and they’re joking about these things happening. And that’s why I thought everyone was going through this. But I’m like, surely everyone’s not feeling the way I do. Surely that I feel this much chaos and out of control and upset as I do every single day.

Because otherwise, we’d all be a mess. Surely not. And it’s because it’s not. It’s funny on TikTok because that was one day in your month, Sarah, but that’s my every day. That’s how I feel about it. And it is still funny to watch those videos, but it’s not funny when it’s your reality every day.

 

Sarah:

Yeah. I guess you laugh because it’s relatable. You’re like, yes, that’s me. And then you laugh because—

 

Jane McFadden:

Yeah. But there’s some real beauty to ADHD as well, you know, in terms of like Amanda, you know, the excitement and the fun. My bestie, sometimes I think she struggles to let loose.

Whereas, you know, I’m like, let’s pop some fucking champagne. It’s 10:30 in the morning. Haven’t seen you for ages. You know, let’s— And she’s like, how are we going to get home? What food will we eat? I don’t have lunch organized. And I’m like, sit down. We’re going for it. Put the music on.

So I sound like your friend and Amanda sounds like you. You so remind me of my grandma. And like, it’s beautiful. Like, it’s that beautiful blend. And I just love it.

So thanks so much, ladies. You have just been so much fun. Do you have any key messages or anything to take away that I’ve not covered?

 

Sarah:

Oh, I think I’m hoping that we got across the disparity between our lives. And I’m so glad we could share it because it was a lot of fun. I think I do want to add that I don’t know if I came across as, oh, I’m always calm and I always have my things together. And it’s always beautiful because yes, I can have days like that.

And I have made it easier over time. But I do want to recognize that mum life is hard and can be hard and everybody has their challenging days. And I also want to recognize that having neurodiversity in your family adds another layer on top of that.

 

Amanda:

Yeah, correct.

 

Sarah:

Yeah, correct. Mum life is hard on everybody.

 

Jane McFadden:

I think that’s a really great message. But look, thank you so much, ladies. Thank you so much for listening.

 

Amanda:

Thank you.

 

Jane McFadden:

The key message here is you are not alone. Thank you for listening.

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