Episode 1 – Co-Parenting Amidst Diagnosis Disagreements

Jane McFadden:
Welcome to the ADHD Mums Podcast, a safe place for everyday Australian mums to discuss their struggles with ADHD, motherhood and life. Today we have Alana Mannix and she is here today to talk about co-parenting. And this topic was Alana’s idea, but I thought, wow, there is something that I don’t know a lot about because I’m happily in a relationship, which is absolutely, I’m very lucky, but also I have to work really hard at it.

So it’s not necessarily luck, but there’s a lot of people that DM me about co-parenting children that do have additional needs and then the disagreements that can come from that. Welcome to you, Alana. Hello.

Alana Mannix:
Thank you. It’s really nice to be here. Really nice.

Jane McFadden:
I am going to put you on the spot. Do you have an ADHD mum fail with no notice that you would like to share at all? Anything that you’ve done, don’t stress. It’s just sometimes people like the Relatable Aussie Mum Podcast and I always forget to ask straight up in the beginning. What would be something that you’ve done recently that was just so ADHD?

One that I do, I overplan. And for my youngest, who’s ADHD ASD, he has like a limit of maybe two hours of being out in the world. And I just plan a whole day because it’d be fun. Go with my kids.

Yeah. Let’s spend some quality time together doing this. And it turns to shit because my youngest can only handle two hours and I’ve planned a whole day. And it’s like, come on. And this is my fail. I forget he has a time limit.

And my frustration is, oh, I want to stay. I want to have fun with you. But his need is, no, we’re done. And my fun is at home in my room playing with Lego. So I have to remember that my idea of fun with the kids is not their idea of fun all the time. Wow.

Jane McFadden:
Let’s go on just a very small tangent. And this is a bit of a problem because we’re going to start tangenting in the first two minutes. So I don’t know how we’re going to go with this. But so Alana was telling me before we started pressing record, how much of a fan she is of the podcast and how relatable it is. Anyway, I just listened to Alana talk and I was like, wow, we are so similar.

I actually am hardcore relating to what you just said. I can see why you love the podcast. It’s a little bit like your problems and my problems. That’s so what I do. I was just wanting to sidebar for a second. Are you diagnosed and medicated?

Alana Mannix:
Yes, I am. Yes.

Jane McFadden:
Okay. Yes. So have you found, because I used to do that really bad too. I would plan three activities on a Saturday and then wonder why everyone like lost their shit halfway through the first one, but being medicated, I am able to stop a little bit more in that I’m less impulsive with my planning. Has that changed or improved at all for you?

Alana Mannix:
I would say taking the medication has made me more aware. I think taking medication is not the magic be all to end all, but I can now be a bit in my mind and go, okay, what do we want to do today? I know he hasn’t had a lot of sleep. I know that he has had a lot of sleep. I know that he’s in a good mood. I know there’s not less. So I do have that space to plan better.

Sometimes it goes out the window because I get excited. I’m on the ride home and no one’s happy. Oh, because no one wanted to do that except for me. Yeah. And it’s like transitioning in and out.

I think I’m a little bit better at it, but my hubby, he’s probably a little bit less identifying the storm before it happens, whereas I can see it happening and now medicated Jane can get up and go, but he’s less able to see the storm coming. However, he also can handle the storm better. So when he does create a storm, he’s like, okay, I’m just going to sort this out.

Whereas I’m like, oh my God, I actually cannot cope with the world ending now. Anyway, let’s move on to topic. I just had to ask you that question about your planning because I do that too.

Jane McFadden:
Back to co-parenting. Alana is, this is her words, not mine. I would not call you an ordinary mum, but I see myself. It’s funny because you don’t want to say normal. We don’t want to say regular. Like we’re all a bit out of the box, but you’re as ordinary as they come in this space.

You’re not a celebrity. We’re not talking about non-relatable things with people living in their $10 million house in Byron Bay with multiple nannies. We’re talking about an ordinary Aussie mum who has two children.

How old are your children, Alana?

Alana Mannix:
They are 10 and 12, but they’re turning 11 and 13 this year.

Jane McFadden:
Okay, great. And both of them are neurodiverse. I generally don’t disclose full diagnoses about who’s what, but we can say that they are neurodiverse, both of them, and that you are yourself. Do you want to disclose what?

Alana Mannix:
Yeah, I’m happy to.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, you go for it. It’s got down here that you have ADHD, generalized anxiety, and binge eating disorder. I’ve got down here that you work full-time. What is it that you do full-time?

Alana Mannix:
I work in the public sector. It’s a financial customer service role.

Jane McFadden:
Anyway, in your spare time, Alana likes to play drums in a band. She loves life. She loves the messiness of it. And sometimes she feels like she’s drowning. Sometimes that’s daily.

And Alana says to her boys that every day is a fresh start. Let’s leave today’s shit show in the past and move on. Wow.

Alana Mannix:
I can only say those words. I don’t actually do that.

Jane McFadden:
Do you reckon you actually do? You know who is really good at doing that? My partner. That’s where I got it from.

We can have the most horrendous day. It will be door slamming, name-calling, swearing, things being thrown, holes in the wall. And it’s just, I’m in the corner in the fetal position. My kids are crying, and he’s just, what the hell? And I’m like, oh my God, it’s over. Everything’s over.

He’ll wake up the next morning. Good morning, sweetie. And I’m just like, what the? So yeah, he has said every day is a fresh day. Leave yesterday. It’s done. We can’t change it.

I went to equine therapy recently with my kids. And anyway, they wouldn’t go in. It was a whole thing. It makes you just like, honestly, it was so painful. I ended up having to go into the therapy with them, which I didn’t want to do.

And we were there and I basically had to participate in the therapy session, which was fun while it lasted, but I was a little tired at the end of it. This is after school. And they did this thing and it was like, if you could be anyone in the world, who would you be? And it was such a great question. And I sat back and I was like, who would I be?

My husband. That’s who I’d be. I was like, he has a sweet setup and his attitude is just so much better than mine. Like in terms of leaving things in the past, waking up, he’s always pretty happy. I call him like a Labrador. He’s just always bouncing around. Everyone loves him.

He just never changes by things and he just takes things in his stride. And I’m like, how does he do that?

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. That sounds exactly like my partner who’s not neurodivergent. So he’s neurotypical.

When you just said, who would I want to be? Anyone in the world? I just thought of my dog. I want to be my dog.

Jane McFadden:
That’s it.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. You know what? Yeah. They live a good life.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, he has the best life. Yeah. Actually, we have this cat that lives with us. It’s not actually our cat. It’s the neighbor’s cat. And he takes advantage of my ADHD all the time. He just always pretends that he hasn’t been fed. And I just don’t know that I feel bad for him. And I just feed him again.

And my husband, you know, one day he won’t leave. You feed him like six times a day. I don’t know. It’s very confusing. He keeps acting like he’s starving. And I assume I’ve forgotten.

Alana Mannix:
Yep. When the kids get loud and too much, our dog just goes to the other end of the house or he goes under the house. And when everyone’s calmed down, he goes, has everyone calmed down? Okay. I’ll come back now.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, he needs to step it up as a therapy dog. Why is he just leaving?

Alana Mannix:
Look, he sleeps on their bed when they’re having a rough night, but it’s the yelling he doesn’t like. He’s too loud. Goodbye.

Jane McFadden:
I’m desperate to get one of those like golden retriever dogs that don’t make it as a guide dog. That’s all I want. I just want one of those. That’s well-trained because ADHD mums probably don’t have time to train a puppy. I’d have that mental dog.

I reckon it’d be like, this is a great companion dog litter. I’d end up with the one that is psychotic and then I’ll train it. And then I’d have a psycho dog, I reckon.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. Our dog, he’s named Bull. So he’s a rescue dog. And we got him when he was about four. We already trained on purpose, did not want to get a puppy because yeah, I don’t have time for that. He’s like the therapy dog of the house. He just sits by his side. And when the boys are upset, I’m like, go and get Bull for cuddle. And they’ll cuddle him and he’ll lean into them. So, except the yelling. If they’re yelling, nope, I’m out.

Jane McFadden:
Let’s get back to co-parenting. You’ve got two boys and you made a decision at some point, obviously, that you guys were not going to be together anymore. Can you tell us a bit about what led up to that, how that happened and then where you’re at now?

Alana Mannix:
My boys were quite young. So my eldest was born in 2011. We lived in another state and it was just myself and my ex-husband, not a lot of family. Being a mum was hard. I took it on board. He hardly slept or anything like that.

When he was one, we decided to move to Queensland because our family up here and by that time I was pregnant with our second. I was so sick. Like the pregnancies where I was ill from go to woe and emotional and a lot of relationship strain with moving and jobs and stuff.

And then when our youngest was born in 2013, I’d already emotionally left the marriage. We were married because I could see that I wasn’t getting the support. This is my opinion. I wasn’t getting the support that I needed as a mother from my partner. And I asked for numerous times, I guess, even when I was pregnant with my youngest, I emotionally had left that marriage and it just went from there.

My youngest, he was one and we separated maybe when he was about 15 or 18 months old. So they were very young. And for about maybe a year and a half, they were with me pretty much full time. And they saw their dad on the weekends and whenever he could. And we had a reasonable relationship at that time. We weren’t best of mates, but we were okay.

And then in 2016, he remarried and then we started having 50-50 shared care. So when the 50-50 shared care came into play, that’s when the difficulties started. And it was first brought to my attention when my eldest was in kindergarten. And lovely kindy teacher pulled me aside and she said, look, Alana, I think there’s some problems. He’s struggling here and here.

And at that time, I’m like, she’s in kindergarten. He’s a boy. Just let him be a boy. I was that free range mum. Oh, let him eat dirt. Let him be rough. He doesn’t want to sit down. Of course he doesn’t want to sit down.

So I didn’t really take any notice of that. I was like, well, thank you. And I’ll take that on board. Prep, same thing happened. I was the mum that was come over here, Alana. And I’m like, oh, and, but it was never good.

And I remember crying when it just kept happening. And she was telling me he can’t sit still and this and that. He’s in prep. Like why is he made to sit still? But then again, no, I could see no other kids were struggling. I’m like, okay.

And so then, and year one, same thing. It escalated in year one because the teacher that he had was horrible. It escalated in year one where he was running out of the class. Like he could not handle anything. So I started the process of GP referral and doing all the assessments and that. And I involved their father. I said, this is what’s happening.

And his point of view was like, oh, he’s just a boy, blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, well, here’s the form. Can you please fill it out? At the very start, that massive one they give you.

So eventually when I did that, by that time it was year two and he had a beautiful teacher in year two. She was very, a lot more understanding. I think she could probably say he was being suspended in year two. Who gets suspended in year two?

And I went through the public system because I felt like I could manage it. And I clearly remember seeing my GP with the school’s assessment, my assessment and dad’s assessment. And my assessment and school’s assessment was pretty much the same, except the school’s assessment was a lot more concerning than what mine was.

And their dad’s, the GP went, what’s this? There’s no problems here. And I’m like, oh, I think there is. I don’t know. And at this stage, because he had remarried and started his life, our relationship turned quite sour. Things happen. And the communication between the two of us, non-existent basically.

From that point on, it was just me constantly advocating, making appointments, going to the school, picking kids up from the school. And so my youngest, he started, he’s just a year behind. So he was in prep. His prep was the same thing. And year one, he was, I don’t want to say a lot worse, but I guess he had to be moved. He had to be changed from class to class.

It got to a point with him that he was only allowed to go to school for two hours because he couldn’t go anywhere. And I went private with him. And that one was when I had an appointment with a pediatrician.

So I went and met the pediatrician. She met with my son and had the information from the school. And then she had the conversation with dad. The pediatrician rang me and said, look, I can’t make a diagnosis because dad’s saying there’s no issues. And I said to her, can I please get the school to call you? Because this is where the main problem is.

So I rang the school and bless them. They were just amazing. They were like, give me the details. I’ll call. And so the school, the deputy principal contacted the pediatrician and the pediatrician called me back and said, that’s a very different story. Diagnosed him straight away.

Jane McFadden:
Oh, thank God for the school.

Alana Mannix:
Oh, if it hadn’t been for the school, honestly, I would still be fighting today to get a diagnosis. The school just went above and beyond, especially the deputy principal, Miss Woods. I’m going to say her name because she’s amazing. I won’t say her first name and I won’t say the school, but she just did so much for the boys. And my youngest is in grade six now. He’s still at that school.

And just the amount of times I’ve had meetings with the school, I’ve had to pick the boys up early. They’ve both been suspended multiple times and there’s been times when they probably should have been suspended, but the school, I guess, knew what was going on. So did me a few favours.

And I’ve always been with that school, the point of contact, because they also realised that they weren’t going to get a lot of help from their dad.

Jane McFadden:
There’s so much to talk about there, but I just have to isolate one thing that I think as the mother, we often are the point of contact. We are the person that often is hearing all of the information from the school firsthand. We are often on the ground there seeing whatever disruptive behaviour possibly your child has done.

I remember one of my kids hit another kid with a stick and I was the one that saw the blood on this little girl’s face. But then if you tell someone about it later, it doesn’t seem as bad because it’s like you didn’t actually see it. You didn’t see the look on everyone’s faces.

So it is easier to put your head in the sand and be like, there’s no issues. If you’re not actually hearing all of the information, then maybe it’s a bit of gaslighting. Oh, Alana’s a bit over the top, isn’t she? It’s not that bad when I go there.

And what I’ve noticed is that when my hubby does a pick up, he doesn’t get information. They hold it. They hold and wait for me. They just don’t even bother. I don’t know if it’s a gender thing or what it is, but they actually just don’t, even if he does drop off, they will take the child off him, say hello, and then go inside and call me.

When I show up at work, he’s there. I think teachers, this is a whole other subject, I think they’re really ill-prepared for our kids that need that extra support. And I think that if they can zone in on a parent who they know is going to be supportive and helpful, that’s the person, that’s the parent they’ll zone in on and just be like, okay, there’s no point talking to that parent because A, they don’t think there’s a problem or B, they don’t do anything.

So this is the one that actions stuff. This is the one that gets stuff done. So I’m going to just speak to that parent.

Alana Mannix:
By default, I guess sometimes it is the mum, because we’re the ones that have to go through all of that. My eldest, a lot of problems with relationships with his peers and was starting to get into physical fights, end of year five and all throughout year six, like full on.

And I would ask my son, okay, can you tell me what happened? And I want to know your point of view, you explain it to me. And I would always say, yep, listen, and I wouldn’t interject. I just say, I want to hear from your point of view, what happened?

And he would tell me. Then I would go to the school and I’d go, okay, what’s happened? What are the reports? Who saw it? Who didn’t see it? And it was always a very different story. Like my son told me 20% of what happened and that 20% was him always being the victim, but the 80%, there was a lot of backstory.

Like he might’ve started something and it might’ve been very small and something was sent back to him. And because he definitely has RSD, so he would hold onto stuff and blah, blah, blah. And there was a massive fight, but that was because initially my son said something to the person who just, and didn’t let it go. And so that kid acted out.

But my ex, basically he would take our son’s word for gold and the school’s wrong. The school don’t know what they’re doing. Our son’s getting bullied and the school aren’t doing anything about it. They’re doing so much about it.

They’ve tried organizing special activities for him. They’ve given him responsibilities. They’ve tried putting the other kid in another area. It’s when one parent doesn’t explore that perhaps their child isn’t always right. You have to look at the bigger picture and you have to understand that your child doesn’t understand the social, because what do I say about my eldest? He can’t read the room.

Like he’s beautiful and kind and caring and would make an amazing friend. He’s also full on and he can’t let things go. And if he’s playing with some kids and they don’t want him to play with them, he can’t pick that up. So it’s not his fault, but there’s always more to the story.

So I’ve always tried to ask my kids their point of view, their opinion. You tell me what happened. And then I’ve also tried to get another story. So the school or a family member, or just someone who can give me another point of view or another more information.

And that’s for me to help my son to say, Hey mate, you know what? I know that such and such punched you, but you know what happened at the start? You called him a name and I don’t think she would like that because you don’t like it. And then you wouldn’t stop calling him that name, even though he asked you to stop that.

I try to unpack it with him. So moving forward in life, but when he just gets from the other parent, Oh mate, that’s horrible. Like you’ve done nothing wrong. It’s mentally for him as well. It’s very confusing.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, it is. And it’s funny. I picked up my son in prep and he told me that he’d been hit in the head with a brick. And I was like, Oh, he’s five or six or whatever. That’s a bit rough. Anyway, as I was going in, cause I had a couple of kids, I was going in there anyway, teacher came up and I was thinking, I think I need to address this. Cause this could have been dangerous. This is a head injury.

And turns out he had been poking this little girl, like physically poking her for such a long period. She said, if you keep doing that, I’m going to hit you with this wooden brick thing that they were playing with. And he kept doing it. And so she stood up and hit him over the head.

And it’s not okay, but I mean, it’s like, I can see she gave him warning. He continued to do it. He was told not to do it. So my reaction was like, maybe you deserve that, which the school was so nice. They’re like, Oh, nobody deserves to be physically punished.

And I was like, he needs to learn that if you’re going to continue to antagonize people, they might stand up and hit you in the face. But when we came home, the message that we gave him was it’s not okay to physically poke after you’ve been told repeatedly and warned to continue to do it.

And that would be super confusing. If you had another parent there going, she shouldn’t have hit you with that. You can do whatever you’d like.

Alana Mannix:
I can’t even imagine because he still can’t get that, that he’s done anything wrong with two parents and a teacher telling him. So if he had somebody outside of that going, mate, you’re fine. That was her fault. She shouldn’t have done that. He would be latching to that so bad.

And to be honest, Jane, this is the ongoing struggle. Like he’s in year seven now doing really great at school because he wants to learn that both my boys, they’re super smart and love learning. I guess we still have 50-50 shared care. And every week it’s, I have to unpack so much mentally with them.

It’s at least 24 to 48 hours before they’re in a headspace of, Oh, I can’t do what I want when I am taught. Mentally for them, it’s getting a lot more challenging because they see the difference in the parenting styles. You know what, dad’s house, dad’s rules. I have no control over what happens at dad’s place. What dad says, that’s for you and dad to speak about. And I learned the hard way that I have no control over that.

Alana Mannix:
But like I said, he is a bit more aware. And he actually said to me, mum, I want to keep conversations that we have about my personal stuff private between you and me now. I’m like, that’s fine mate.

And he has a psychologist who he loves seeing. So I said, and anything that you don’t want to speak to me about, you can speak to Sam about. I only take him every once a month because that’s what he needed. And he goes, can I see him more? I’m like, yeah, no problems. And now I take him once a short night.

Between him and I feel like I’ve really opened up that communication. So he feels safe to speak to me about it. And I think that’s probably a really, some advice is you have to let your child know that they can talk to you about anything. And if the other parent who’s not in agreeance with the diagnosis or the problems or what, it’s okay.

That’s fine. If you feel like you’re not being heard by that person, then you’re heard with me and anything that you want to say, you can talk to me about, or we’ve got appointments for you. It’s really important for kids to know that there’s at least one person they can talk to.

Jane McFadden:
Absolutely. And someone said this to me on the podcast at some point, I don’t remember who it was that they were talking about. If you can’t handle the small stuff, then your kids won’t come to you with the big stuff.

So if you didn’t have that open relationship of your lunchbox didn’t open, this person didn’t sit with you. I lost my hat. If you’re not open and going to handle the small stuff, air quotes, because it’s not small stuff to kids, it’s big stuff.

And if you’re too busy or you don’t want to see it, or you’re not there, or you say you’ll come back and you don’t, then they’ll give up and they’ll think she couldn’t even handle, or he couldn’t even handle this thing that happened at the library today. So why would I tell her about something big?

And I thought it was really interesting because sometimes it’s changed my way of thinking because sometimes I do hear little things and maybe I don’t give it the attention because in my perspective, it’s not a big deal, but in their perspective, it is a big deal.

And if I’m not paying attention to and giving connection and love in those moments, then how can I expect my child to come to me as yours has with you, which is just a reflection on your parenting and your work as a parent. I think that’s something that every parent wants to have is to have that moment of disclosure, because if you have the warning, you can deal with it.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. Like you said, with the little things and you know what kids are like, they’ll talk to you at the one moment where you’ve got an armful of laundry and you’ve got something boiling in the kitchen and they’ll be like, mom, you know what happened at school today? And just like, oh, shut up. I don’t care. In your mind, you are thinking that. Yeah.

But then if I’m in the middle of something, I’ll just be like, you know what, mate, I want to hear that. Just give me a few minutes. Okay. Or if I can, I’ll be like, what happened, mate? And it’s something, like you said, something stupid, blah, blah, blah through my head.

This is what happened recently, such and such trimmer hat. And now I can’t get it. And I just go, oh, you know what, mate, that sounds annoying. I’d be annoyed. I’m like, do you want to get another hat? And he’s like, oh no, I’ve got one at dad’s. It’s all right.

And I’m like, well, just let me know if you want to get another hat. I don’t care that someone threw his fricking hat. Not my problem. Like it’s my problem to buy another $20 hat, but just acknowledging that little moment, that would be annoying, wouldn’t it?

And it’s so hard to, and look, trust me, I’m far from that mom with the baked cookies coming out and everything’s rosy, but I do understand more the importance of having those little moments and the bigger moments. And I tell my kids, guys, I respect you as a person. You have your own thoughts, your own opinions. There’s things that you like that I don’t like. There’s things that I like that you don’t like.

And there’s things that you do that I don’t want to be involved in. And there’s things that I don’t want you to be involved in. We all have to respect everyone’s opinions and point of views. And I don’t want them to be just a cookie cutter of me and do what I do and say what I say and think how I think.

And I always tell them that it’s important that if someone is saying something that you don’t agree with, or it’s not your opinion, you don’t have to do it just to make that person happy. It’s not your responsibility to make your mom or dad happy. It’s not your responsibility if your mom and dad are upset to make sure that they feel better.

Sure, I’ll give them a hug if they wanted. And I do that so it can transition to the other home because I know there’s a lot of, they don’t want to do something just to upset dad. And it’s like, mate, you know what? If it’s a rule and if it’s important and if someone’s in danger, then you have to listen to your dad. But if it’s your opinion or you’re allowed to say something, as long as it’s not rude or disrespectful and you’re allowed to say, oh no dad, I actually don’t want to do that. Or, oh yeah dad, I do.

You can have a voice. And they’re at that age now where it’s 10 and 12, I’m trying to encourage them. And what I do with them is I give them scenarios with their friends. I’m like, you know what? If your friend asked you to be really mean to someone or hit them, would you do it just because your friend asked you to? And they’re like, no. I’m like, okay, yeah, good. Or that’s you having your own opinion and your own thoughts.

The circle of control. I’ve got the circle of control printed up in their bedroom. This is what you’re in control of. You’re in control of your words, your actions, your behavior, your feelings. You’re not in control of what other people say or what other people do.

Jane McFadden:
It’s so interesting that you brought that up because I was about to ask you about the attitude and the way that you look at the situation. And I was actually going to say to you, have you ever done any of the circle control stuff? And I was trying to figure out whether you’d learnt it and were doing it or whether you were just doing it.

Because I really struggle with control and wanting to control situations. And if I don’t have control, it drives me mad. So I’m just trying to put myself in your shoes and having 50% care of your children in something that you can’t control. That could either drive you completely mad or you can be where you’re at because you’ve managed to let it go isolated. That happened there. That’s okay. I can only do this here.

Whereas I think I would be consumed by what goes on over there and then not be able to move forward. How have you gotten to that point?

Alana Mannix:
Because it did consume me. I’m still not. To be honest, when you were talking about that, I feel so emotional because I hate it. I hate not being there for my kids when they need me. And I hate that I can’t guide them in a way that they need. And I struggle with it a lot, but I can’t do anything about it.

So I have to swallow it. I have to just go, okay, I can’t do about it. What can I do is when they’re with me, I can make it count.

Alana Mannix:
After the boys got diagnosed, I had never ever once thought about ADHD in my life. There was naughty kids at school and I was like, oh, they’ve got issues. And that was all I thought about it.

And then when my boys got diagnosed and going through that process, I’m pretty sure so many parents just went, oh, wow, this is me. And then I went down the path of getting diagnosed myself and which of course I was diagnosed. And I don’t even think I had myself fully processed that because my kids were my focus.

So I’m like, okay, cool. I’ve got ADHD. My kids need me. And I think it was probably, oh, I started doing therapy. I’m like, oh, okay, we’ll go to therapy. Because the last four times I’ve been with four different people helped before, but it didn’t.

And I got to a point where I couldn’t cope and I was having panic attacks. I was breaking down mentally. I honestly felt like I probably was close to, or maybe I did have a full breakdown. And my partner’s, you’ve got ADHD, you need to do something about this. And I’m like, shit, I do.

It was really interesting how it happened. Like I got referred to a psychiatrist and on so many waiting lists, and I’m like, okay, blah, blah, blah, see how I go. And I got in to this cancel list and I got in within a couple of weeks. And he started me on meds straight away.

And it was just like, oh, wow. Okay. Why didn’t I do that a year ago instead of going to therapy? This helps. And through that psychiatrist, I’ve been referred to stuff for my kids, like really great psychiatrists and speech OTs for my kids.

And I’ve had the feeling like, oh, I was meant to meet that psychiatrist to help me, but it actually, in helping me, it’s also helped my kids that believe in that thing. Like you meet people for a reason. So the meds helped a lot. I’m on anxiety medication, medication for my ADHD.

And just recently I’ve started taking the, what’s the, I always forget its name. The one for the emotional.

Jane McFadden:
Intuniv.

Alana Mannix:
Intuniv. I’ve heard quite a bit about Intuniv. And I’ve just started, cause I’m still like, which way on the seesaw am I today? That’s how I was feeling. It’s still overwhelming for me. And I’m still dealing with this same shit on a weekly basis because the boys have also just last year being diagnosed with ASD.

So again, it was that whole process again, but I had an amazing psychiatrist. It was so clear. And I said to him, what if there’s pushback with the diagnosis? And he said, oh, we can have second opinions or they can speak to me. He goes, but essentially my diagnosis is recognized. And if there’s any issue, then it’s actually considered a form of child abuse.

And I’m like, okay, hold up. We’re not going down that end, but he was 100% behind me. And that helped. For the first time since this whole process, I have just started to feel like I have the medical side on the psychiatrist on my team.

With my eldest, his pediatrician, because there was that, the issue with the disagreements in diagnosis, the pediatrician would always speak to me, speak to the dad before making a final decision. And if the dad didn’t agree, then he wouldn’t go ahead with it. And that was a constant struggle.

The last time I spoke to him, I was on the phone crying, begging him to just trial an increase to medication. I’m like, please, he means it. It’s really struggling. Can we just trial it? And I was literally crying and begging on the phone. And he agreed to it.

Psychiatrists who have just gone to see, he had an assessment. We talked about it and he goes, the eldest, he needs an increase in his medication and I’ll just do it for you now. I’m like, my God, what? You’ll just do it now.

And he goes, Oh, well, I can clearly see that there’s a lot of struggles and the school has sent me this. Just try and increase the medication. It was like my world changed. It was really a great moment.

However long I’d spent the past seven years battling, battling, and it just, it was seen straight away.

Jane McFadden:
The only thing that would make the situation worse would be, is if you had a daughter that was highly masking and camouflaging. You’ve got the school here, right? You’ve got them and I think they sound great. And there’s obviously clear behavioral and obviously they’re on board because they probably want the best for your kids. We would hope.

And they want to make sure that they are seeing the best of your kids. They don’t want to have a child that could improve, but then just not do anything about it. Because from my understanding, from a school’s perspective, the hardest kids to deal with are the ones where there’s clear issues and the parents won’t want to see it.

They won’t intervene and there’s nothing that’s really done. And then they’re just left with this child that could be a lot better, but they’re just not getting any help and support. And that kid actually is the loser of that situation. No one else.

The only thing that would make this worse is if you had a daughter who was there and the school went back in you, because if they were perfectionistic, highly masking and sitting by themselves or something like that, and they weren’t seeing those clear behavioral disruptive things, but you were seeing it because often it’s only the mom that they will let that go for.

So that would be interesting if you’re listening and you have that situation, because I’m so glad you’ve got that school. That would be an incredible battle to fight without them, because at least you’ve got a deputy principal that’s going to back you and go, there are issues.

And I’m sure that your ex is probably saying, Alana’s crazy. And she, oh yeah, she’s off her head and she’s got her own problems and she’s probably off her head. Of course, it’s always a crazy kind of bitch mentality.

Jane McFadden:
So one thing I was going to ask, and it’s okay if you don’t want to comment, I’m just going to flag it. Often I find with people that I speak to, and I do chat to a lot of people these days, when they talk about diagnosis as adults, let’s say if you get diagnosed or your children are being diagnosed and you’re like, wow, I can see those traits.

I think that’s me often. And I don’t want to genderize it, but I just feel like women are a little bit more open-minded. Wow. That actually could be me. I do that. Even small things they’ll take and go, I’m going to really be open-minded about this.

So then often they then will go, okay, I think that part there is me possibly. But when they go to their family or parents or brothers, sisters, there can be a real backlash. That’s normal. Everyone does that because possibly those people have their own symptoms.

Wondering here whether some of those symptoms in your kids or your boys could be something that your ex has, but sees as normal. And so doesn’t want to address it for fear of him having to address his own issues.

Alana Mannix:
100%. I have often thought that myself, we were together for 10 years and the things I saw in those 10 years at the time, I was just like, I don’t know, that’s who we are. And because I was quite similar, we were both horrible with money. He got fired from several jobs because he was also like a very anxious.

At the time I didn’t see it, but now it’s totally, yeah. But I think you’re right. And no one wants to admit that. Oh, I don’t know. For me, it’s been great because that old thing on like, Oh, I’m just a shit adult. No, you’re not. You’ve struggled.

And it’s interesting actually, when I did the assessment for myself and they have to speak to family members, they spoke to my partner and they spoke to my dad and my dad, who I also think is surprised. Oh, he was naughty at school and all that kind of stuff. Dad, I think you’ve got the genes, but he was like, Oh, there’s nothing wrong with Alana. She’s strong. She just gets on with it and battles through.

No shit. It’s called masking dad, but hang on. Oh, she was always just a bit naughty, a bit naughty. That’s that generation.

I had to get my sister to do it. And my sister and I are really close in age and close in relationship. And she’s also, I said to her, Brooke, come on, go get tested. She’s like, yeah, I know I should. So my sister is a hundred percent as well. And she’s going to get tested.

And I left my meds at her house and she told me, she’s, Oh, I took 20 of meds. And I said, Oh, okay. You shouldn’t do that. But how’d you go? And she’s, I just got so much done. She’s like, knew what I was doing. I’m like, Oh, no. Hello.

Jane McFadden:
There is so many people. I reckon, I reckon I heard of her mum the other day and she took, I think she thought it was powder. I don’t know what she was doing. She honestly, honest to God, this is not bullshit. She actually said to me, I swear to you, I had no idea that I had any problems. She was not on her radar at all.

And then she, what she thought was a, I think it was a zinc. So it’s like the same size as like a dexamphetamine. God, it was a zinc, honest to God she did. And then was like, whoa. And it was so marketably different that she was like, there’s something that’s happened to me.

And she backtracked it only because it was so incredibly different. And she said, I actually had no idea I had any symptoms until she took the medication. And I got so much done and I knew exactly what I was doing. And I was so focused. I’m like, yeah, it’s amazing. Isn’t it?

I had a moment where I used to meal prep and I would get so, I’d be like meal prepping because I work. I don’t have time to do anything. And so I’d be meal prepping on a Sunday and I’d have four or five pans going and something in the oven and oh shit. No, it’s so chaotic.

And after I was saying, I was meal prepping one day and I had one chopping board and I had one thing going and I was doing one thing at a time. And I stopped and I went, what the hell? Like I was so focused. I was just chopping my veggies. And then after I was chopping my veggies, I was going to cook them.

I thought I wasn’t chopping my veggies and putting washing on. And it was just insane. I was like, whoa, is this how normal people live? Yeah. Instead of just walking around and then feeling really overwhelmed.

There’s so much to pick up. There’s so much to do. And then just walking around and thinking I’m doing things, but not actually doing things. And then now I just walk around and just pick things up. Like I’m not overwhelmed. I’m just, oh, I’m just going to walk and just pick some things up on the way. Put a load of washing on. Like it doesn’t seem hard.

I’m not then going, I must pick up stuff off the ground. This is a big job. I must isolate 30 minutes. It’s just, oh, I just walk around and pick some stuff up.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. And for me, it’s actually, I don’t stop doing the things that multitasking or interrupting all that. I don’t stop doing the things, my ADHD things. I’m just a bit aware, more aware and being aware does mean I can stop.

Perfect example this morning, I was just outside patting Bull wishing I was him and the trampoline was in a position that I didn’t like it. I spent half an hour moving the fricking trampoline into a position and then I’m okay. Stop. Why are you doing this? Go inside.

I could have spent another half an hour moving the trampoline and then I probably would have gone, oh, that’s a weed. And I would have gotten a spade out and started digging up my garden. It’s just having the awareness of going, okay, stop. You’re doing something. You’re hyper-focusing on it and you’ve got to go in and have a shower and eat breakfast and get ready for the day. Not move the trampoline into a position.

I was under the trampoline looking to see if it was like, oh, is it a bit down on that end? Oh no, I’ll just move it this way. Crazy woman. So the symptom, it’s still there and I still do it, but it’s just being able to be aware and stopping.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. It’s interesting. I came home the other day and my hubby, he’s actually got very opposite symptoms to me and which he has just started to admit that there might be something going on. And he’s not diagnosed. He has been diagnosed. He has got some medication, but he doesn’t actually still think that there’s anything going on with it.

Yeah. So I run a podcast on neurodiversity. That’s fine. He’s fine. He’s actually really supportive. And I just keep pointing things out to him constantly.

So he really struggles completely the opposite to me with getting started in analysis paralysis. And I’m well known for doing the task, but not doing it well, doing it halfway, doing the wrong task slightly, like I’ll get it done. But is the quality there to where it needs to be in something that I’m not really caring about? Things I care about is easy.

There’s something around the house. So the other day the fridge broke and it was starting to steam and it wasn’t quite off yet. It was flicking in and out. And my hubby is really into the gym. So we often have a lot of meat in the fridge. And I was starting to get a little bit concerned that we were all going to end up with gastro with this fridge going on and off.

And I thought we’re going to have to get a new fridge anyway in the next few months. Why have gastro to then find out that we need to get a new fridge? Can we not just get ahead of this? Because I don’t want to clean up this gastro situation. And anyway, he was not really on board. It’s also broken yet when all this stuff.

And I said to him, I just feel like if we’ve got a specific size that we need and we want a specific thing, I feel like it’s better to just order it because we don’t know when it will be available. It might not be available for three weeks.

Oh my God. That’s so me. Yep. We have the money in the account. So why not just do it? Because we know we’re going to have to spend it anyway. Leave it with me, which is code for it’s never going to happen.

I can’t leave that with you because that’s not something that I feel like you’re going to action quickly. I said to him, look, I’m just going to get it done. And he goes, I think you should let me pick the fridge. I was like, I’m on it. And I’m also like, I’m doing 17,000 things. I’m not really a quality person, but he will go the other way.

He’ll spend seven weeks thinking about it. Measuring it. And it’s at that point, we’ve all had gastro three times and we’re living in Havaneski. And I just think there’s so much stuff coming. I know this is going to be a problem. Let me just fix it.

So anyway, go down. I spend all of five to 10 minutes probably buying a fridge. So that looks right. Anyway, it arrives. It’s not right, but the freezer space is probably way too big for what we need. The fridge size is a bit smaller and it’s one that can’t be plumbed.

The other one was plumbed because we drink a lot of water. It’s Queensland. And it was really good for the kids to go and get fresh cold water out of the fridge. We loved having that fridge. I thought the wrong one. It can’t be plumbed. It’s not the right size. And we’re just like coping with it.

That is an example of what I would do, whereas he’s the other way completely. So I came home the other day and he was like all in a bit of a flap and he’s outside and he’s, I’ve been thinking about potting these plants for a year and I’m just going to do it now. And then he was like, I’m just going to clear off this thing and I’m going to do that here. And I’m going to do that there.

And I’m thinking, who is this man of action? Usually he would sit down, like I would come back and this has been going on for over a year. I would come back home and he would be like, oh, I’m like, what have you been up to? Oh, I’m still figuring out what pot to get for that plant outside.

This is a house that we’re going to renovate. So it’s not even an issue. Like this isn’t the house of our dreams that we need to get a pot as the finishing product. It’s not even related to anything. And I’m just trying to be supportive. Oh, okay, cool. Have you got that sorted? No, nope. Still in the researching phase. And I’m like, okay.

To a job that doesn’t need doing. Anyway, so then he’s actually outside potting all of these plants for 90 minutes, two hours. He wasn’t planning. He was just doing it. And when he came inside, oh, I need to have a coffee. I was like, oh, I can make you a coffee. And I was like, how are you? Are you feeling all right? What have you been putting your hand in your bed? So what have you been up to?

And he goes, oh, I might’ve had a small dexamphetamine, but I don’t think it’s related to anything.

Alana Mannix:
To what I’ve been doing around the house.

Jane McFadden:
I would have done that anyway. Pretty sure I haven’t seen you go out of the research phase for years with those pot plants. Because the first time he took it, he sat down and did his passport application for the first time. So I’ve been asking him to do that for nearly five years.

And he took it, took a dexamphetamine. He goes, there’s nothing wrong with me. And I said, I don’t know if there’s nothing wrong with you. And I was like, what have you been up to? He goes, oh, I did my passport application and took it to the post office and got my photos done.

What was that? And my taxes from 10 years ago. This is not somebody like that’s a five year plan for that man. So to get a passport application done, that’s not, I said to him, I’ve never known anyone that has to go find, do something else before they get started on any task. Like usually you’d have to go buy a special rake to do the garden. That would take a few weeks. It’s just different.

And I know we’ve gone from a tangent, but the diagnosis is really important. And I think sometimes partners aren’t always on board as much as what we are. And with my partner, he’s a straight shooter and something that I love about him and something that I also don’t love so much about him is he doesn’t blow smoke up my ass.

Like he’ll just be very honest and very open and he won’t hand it to me. And then sometimes I’m like, I just need a cuddle. And he’s like, oh, come on, I’ll give you a cuddle. But don’t talk like that. And it’s helpful having him as the voice of reason when there’s no reason in any, the three of us, it’s very difficult for him living in a house with the three neurodivergents.

And also there’s little relationship issues with the stepdad, like that in a neurotypical family is enough just so there’s that as well. But we’re trying to get better at communicating. We’re both on the same page, but I’m quite a few chapters behind him, if that makes sense. Like we’re in the same book.

Alana Mannix:
And one of the things that I cannot control for the life of me is impulse shopping. I can go to the supermarket and just get milk and bread and I’ll come out with whatever you can think of, I’ve come out with it. And I’ve been in the shop for two hours and I love it.

Part of it is like, I’m just walking around the shops and doing the go-to shopping and no one’s bothering me because my kids refuse to come grocery shopping with me. And everyone’s happy with that. But I will buy things that we don’t need. I’ll buy stuff that we’ve got five of, I’ll overspend. Like it’s shocking.

And we were fighting about that, myself and my partner. And I’m like, if I want to get milk, if we run out of milk, I want to be able to get it. Like, why can’t I get it? And he’s because you go in and get milk and you come out with everything else except milk and you’ve spent $300.

And I’m like, okay. I’m like, yep. All right. So he does the shopping and I’m like the control thing with me as well. I’m shocking with control. So I said to him, you can do all of the shopping under this one condition. It has to be done either Thursday or Friday and you have to do it.

And we can’t be just like, oh, I didn’t have time. I’ll go do it on Saturday. It has to be done on either of one of those days because our changeover day is Friday. So I want a full pantry and a full fridge when the kids get here. And again, that’s control. Like I’ve got to have food here for my kids.

We’ve got food here, but that’s just my control thing. And I said to him and we’ll do a shopping list and I’m going to write on the shopping list what I want to get and you have to get it. And the only times that you don’t have to get it is if you can see that we’ve already got it or it’s not in stock.

And now he actually sent me screenshots of when there’s something on the list and it’s not there. He’s like, it’s not here. I couldn’t get it. And I’m like, oh my God, I’m a bitch. Is that how I make you feel? But we’ve worked it out now.

I haven’t bought groceries for, I think at least, I want to say three weeks. And he does the grocery shopping.

Jane McFadden:
Nice one.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah. And it’s a predictable problem. That was a predictable problem that just kept coming up. So I now say, hey, please, you’ve got to get this tonight. You’ve got to get the milk or you’ve got to get the noodles or send a screenshot.

Don’t get the no brand Milo. Please buy the regular Milo. No one likes the no brand Milo. We all want the real Milo.

Jane McFadden:
Oh yeah. Freddie, when we were talking about Sharon from the Functional Family, we were saying how much we love her. That is so funny. I said to my hubby’s really into the gym and he loves his protein and I’m not an attention to detail person.

So he sent me that. I really need you to get me some protein. I need it. I need you to go and get it. And he had a really busy day and I was fine with that. He helps me out. That was not a problem. But he said to me, it has to be this flavor. It has to be this brand.

I was like, oh no, this is not, I can’t deal with that. As soon as you get specific about what it has to be, I don’t know if I can even like concentrate long enough because that just doesn’t seem important to me. When I go get stuff, I’m like, whatever’s fine. I’ll have that. That’s just my perspective, which is not everybody’s.

And anyway, the other day I went there and then I actually had to send him a picture of the fact that the flavor was gone because I was like, I’ve actually asked somebody, they’ve taken, there’s a hole where the one is. I’m going to get the one next to it, but I was trying to get the one that you wanted. Like I actually, I was like, I want you to know that I tried so hard and I’m not making up a lie that it wasn’t there.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah, that’s how my partner’s like with me, but there wasn’t any sparkling water. Oh my God. Where’s the sparkling water? Like you’re biased. Totally.

Jane McFadden:
Because here’s the best, it would be like, you didn’t ask anyone, did you? It was probably right in front of you and you didn’t see it. No, I absolutely tried my hardest.

Jane McFadden:
Do you have anything that you would like to add that you haven’t said yet? Coming from a point of view of offering advice to other parents who are co-parenting and it’s difficult, just always get documented evidence.

Alana Mannix:
Ask a school to do reports. Say, oh, the kid’s having issues. I need to take them. If I’ve got to take them to a GP or whatever, can you please do an assessment? Can you please sit with them for a day or whatever and write a full report? Because that’s documented evidence. So always get documented evidence in any way that you can.

Don’t be afraid to ask the school. Say, hey, I’m on your side. We both want the same outcome. You don’t want my child to be disrupting constantly and I want to help them.

Always be open. For example, tell your ex-partner, say, this is the doctor, this is the pediatrician, this is the person. You are more than welcome to speak to them. You’re more than welcome to come to an appointment. You’re more than welcome to provide. Put it on them.

You’re not in control of what they do, your partner does, but you can give them the information if they want to speak to any of the medical side of it. So don’t hide stuff and just be like, I’m taking my kid to a psychiatrist and you’re more than welcome to make your own appointment. Or you can come to my appointment if you want to.

Jane McFadden:
I think your third party approach is really clever because you don’t want it to be like, I am the mother, I am saying this. It’s a quick way to upset somebody.

Alana Mannix:
Oh, it’s never I. Can I give you also a little sneaky bit of information that my lawyer told me when communicating with another person, and we all deal like this with day-to-day, always end it with, does that suit you?

Tell them what you’re going to do or tell them what you’d like to do and end with, does that suit you? Because you’re leaving it open for them to either respond or how they respond, that’s out of your control, but you’re giving them an opportunity to respond. You’re not just saying, this is what I’m doing, suck it.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah, I agree. It’s interesting because my hubby sometimes is a bit of an ultimatum person. I think it’s probably an older school way of parenting. Eat your dinner or you don’t get dessert. How many of us have heard that? That’s just standard things that people say.

And I said to him the other day, with neurodiverse kids, giving them an ultimatum can actually really get their back up. And he couldn’t understand what I was saying. And then I said to him, how do you feel if I said to you, if you don’t bring the bread home, then you can’t sleep here tonight? Does that make you want to bring the bread home? And he’s like, no.

And so if you give someone a hardcore ultimatum with a high value object, like an ice cream, then how do you expect them to sit there nicely and calmly and talking about their day when you’ve just given them a pretty forceful ultimatum? And that’s actually a great point because I said to him, think about how you would feel being spoken to that way.

The reason I bring that up is because I would feel the same way. If someone sent me a message, especially regarding my children, and then just told me what it was, it didn’t give me an option of does that suit you? What do you think? Or what are your thoughts? I would be really aggro.

So it’s a great way of handling it. I don’t care if it suits them or not, but I’m going to let them think that I care because that’s the benefit of my child. I care whether we like it or not, he’s the dad and I’m the mom, but it just makes communication easier.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah, I agree. And I think you’ve given some real words of wisdom there because I can imagine in the beginning, you probably were highly emotional. This is it or that. And obviously handling things different, communicating differently takes the emotion out of it.

In talking about facts, the pediatrician has recommended this, the school has recommended that. I’d really commend you. I think that’s a really clever way to do it that you probably would only do having made the mistake. So hopefully we can get people to hear what you’re saying and be like, that’s actually what I want to write.

And maybe you write out the text of what you really want to say and you don’t send it and then you write out something else or you hand it to your sister or your friend to rewrite it factually without the emotion in it.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. And having, you just said sister, my sister and I’ll say something to her and she’s like, what a dick. And I’m like, I know, right? So she’s like my vent, like I’ll say stuff to her and she’ll just be like, oh, you’re kidding. I’m just such an idiot. I’m like, thank you. Thank you.

Alana Mannix:
Yeah, but that’s just acknowledgement, right? That’s just acknowledging your feelings. It’s not like going, well, why can’t you see it from his point of view? You can’t because it’s you. Yeah. And you know, you want someone to support you.

Jane McFadden:
Thank you so much for your time Alana. It has been really interesting to hear from your perspective and it’s not something we’ve heard enough about yet. And with the way that the world is moving with divorce rates, it’s absolutely a huge issue that we haven’t spoken about yet on this podcast. So I really appreciate your time and honesty. It’s a really important conversation.

Alana Mannix:
Oh, thank you. I’m very happy to just provide my point of view and hopefully that can just give someone some thought to work with or an idea.

Jane McFadden:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Alana. I really appreciate it. Cheers.

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